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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello,
My setup d16 stock head and block, 540cc injectors, aem 340lhp, stage 3 clutch, ebay turbo kit, turbo size 50/63, arp headstuds and cometic gasket. Tuned on s300 hondata, from headers to exhaust 2.5" downpipe
Making 140whp.
I was expecting it to make around 200whp
But my tuner says cant achieve it with this setup?
Can anyone help me with this?
 

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Brokedick Millionaire
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Things you didn't need....

540cc injectors, aem 340lhp, stage 3 clutch.
 

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93 Civic HB SI
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Is the turbo spinning? Lol, you should have been able to make 200 on your average 7-9PSI wastegate spring pressure. Did your tuner give reasons why it wont make 200? Or is he one of those tuners who hates on Honda's?
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Is the turbo spinning? Lol, you should have been able to make 200 on your average 7-9PSI wastegate spring pressure. Did your tuner give reasons why it wont make 200? Or is he one of those tuners who hates on Honda's?
Yeah its spinning, Its on 0.6 bar boost.
He is known for Honda's, he is saying that my downpipe is not enough and I had to do engine build...
 

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Yeah its spinning, Its on 0.6 bar boost.
He is known for Honda's, he is saying that my downpipe is not enough and I had to do engine build...
That makes sense then. He's trying to prevent you from grenading the engine and give you something still somewhat reliable to drive.

Build the engine, then bring back to your tuner for more!
 

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BATSLOMAN GIVES NO FUCKS.
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Yeah its spinning, Its on 0.6 bar boost.
He is known for Honda's, he is saying that my downpipe is not enough and I had to do engine build...
why are you asking us when your tuner told you the problem?
 

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BATSLOMAN GIVES NO FUCKS.
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the bottom end is only good for 200whp SAFELY.

post pics of your downpipe. its not always about size, the shape and bends also hinder flow
 

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93 Civic HB SI
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What does the downpipe transition look like coming out of the turbo?

I'm running 2.5" on a shitty cast manifold, made 370whp literally 3 days ago.
 

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Brokedick Millionaire
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First pull, 3rd gear no boost
2-3 pulls, 3rd gear with boost
4th pull, 4th gear with boost

Any detonation issues? Looks like oil drain back is too low in the pan.
 

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It looks like he moved the final trace over to the right for easier viewing to stand out? Coupled with what looks like the AFR trace below, also moved to the right.

Looks like he stayed relatively safe with AFR by making sure it heads generously rich as RPM increases, with a bit of a lean out in AFR as boost started to come in.

Looking at the power trace, boost and ignition timing are definitely what is limiting power. You can see how flat (yet bumpy) power is through the majority of the pull, starting from when boost comes on and cranks up the power, then wastegate opens and it stays flat pretty much all the way to redline. He definitely purposely tuned it to the 140whp cap, with boost levels and conservative timing being the controls, and not really spending a whole lot of time trying to clean up the trace in boost.

It is the power level he set you at, until you build it and the tuner feels comfortable taking it higher. Tuner would probably spend more time cleaning up the traces during higher hp runs, but at 140whp, a clean (unbumpy) trace is negligible. Keeping it flat is what is important, and he definitely achieved that. The tuner probably capped it here using his experience to keep it reliable for you. Remember, 140 wheel hp on this engine is roughly 170-180 crankshaft hp, almost 60-80hp more than the stock N/A crankshaft hp rating. Going to 200whp is roughly 240 crankshaft hp, which is more than double (120-140 additional hp) the entire stock engine power level. He capped you for longevity using his experience, not because your setup wasn't capable.

With the stuff you have on the car, 200whp is definitely possible, but without your word saying "take it higher" and him making you put that down in writing relieving himself of all risk, he was doing what he felt comfortable with to keep his reputation.

Depending on the condition of the engine, your power limit could be a blessing in disguise. A spun bearing could be around the corner, you never know... tuner looks like he was only trying to help.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
It looks like he moved the final trace over to the right for easier viewing to stand out? Coupled with what looks like the AFR trace below, also moved to the right.

Looks like he stayed relatively safe with AFR by making sure it heads generously rich as RPM increases, with a bit of a lean out in AFR as boost started to come in.

Looking at the power trace, boost and ignition timing are definitely what is limiting power. You can see how flat (yet bumpy) power is through the majority of the pull, starting from when boost comes on and cranks up the power, then wastegate opens and it stays flat pretty much all the way to redline. He definitely purposely tuned it to the 140whp cap, with boost levels and conservative timing being the controls, and not really spending a whole lot of time trying to clean up the trace in boost.

It is the power level he set you at, until you build it and the tuner feels comfortable taking it higher. Tuner would probably spend more time cleaning up the traces during higher hp runs, but at 140whp, a clean (unbumpy) trace is negligible. Keeping it flat is what is important, and he definitely achieved that. The tuner probably capped it here using his experience to keep it reliable for you. Remember, 140 wheel hp on this engine is roughly 170-180 crankshaft hp, almost 60-80hp more than the stock N/A crankshaft hp rating. Going to 200whp is roughly 240 crankshaft hp, which is more than double (120-140 additional hp) the entire stock engine power level. He capped you for longevity using his experience, not because your setup wasn't capable.

With the stuff you have on the car, 200whp is definitely possible, but without your word saying "take it higher" and him making you put that down in writing relieving himself of all risk, he was doing what he felt comfortable with to keep his reputation.

Depending on the condition of the engine, your power limit could be a blessing in disguise. A spun bearing could be around the corner, you never know... tuner looks like he was only trying to help.

Thanks alot for your comment. Helped me understand whats going on better.
 

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Brokedick Millionaire
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It looks like he moved the final trace over to the right for easier viewing to stand out? Coupled with what looks like the AFR trace below, also moved to the right.
That is the function of the pull being in 4th gear and the others being in 3rd gear.

IMHO the tuner was too lazy to hook a tach lead to a spark plug wire, enter the cylinder count, so the bottom of the graph could be in RPM instead of KPH. Same laziness for not having TQ as well.

Looks like a dynojet plot, the info MIGHT be there but you would need to reader and original files to decode it, like I did in 1999....fuck I'm old!
 
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