[curlybandit]

Hey everyone.

After posting up a thread inquiring about a stroker build, I've begun the process of researching and sourcing the parts I will need.

This build will be very foreign to me. I'm far more comfortable with the concept of a high-compression d16. I know what parts I would need and how to do it. A stroker build is a while other thing but I'm intrigued by the uniqueness of it.

I'm picking up a d16z6 head this morning. I'll be putting in a more aggressive camshaft and a set if springs. I'm looking into the cost of getting a mild port and polish. Although I have the tools to do it myself, I would rather not screw up the head due to my lack of experience. I'll need to look at one of the available online calculators to see how much, if any, of the head can be machined for increased compression (I relation to what pistons I will use). I did a calculation of the combustion chamber size difference after milling for when I had my y8kn a previous post. I'll do the same for the z6.

I have a y8 intake manifold that I will be porting. I've seen some impressive numbers when comparing a ported y8 with an aftermarket offering like the Skunk2 or Edelbrock. I also have a 60mm b18 throttle body that I will be port-matching the IM to.

I'm looking for a d16z6 block. I would like to bore the cylinders 1mm over to 76mm. These have not been as easy to come by. Can someone please confirm that since I'm looking at a stroker build that uses d17 internals, would any d16 block work (z6, y8, y7) with a z6 head?

I'm picking up a d17a1 block. This will have the rods, pistons, crank, oil pump, rear main seal, oil pickup, crank pulley/cog/crank pulley bolt, and the D17 oil pan. I need to decide which pistons I'm going to use. Again I'm going to have to look at one of the calculators to determine the compression ration and piston-to-deck clearance.

I understand that the d17 crankshaft snout needs to be machined off to accept the d16 timing belt gear and d16 crank pulley, but I've read from another build on onecamonly.com that a b18 crank pulley can be used directly on the d17 crank without machining it. Can anyone confirm this? Also, does anyone know if by either using the d16 crank pulley post-machining or the b18 crank pulley, will I be able to keep power steering and A/C?

Am I missing anything? I'm still in the research and parts collection stages so any input would be awesome.

Thanks!

 

[Evanguy]

yes any d16 block but obd1/0 have the oil dipstick in the block so your dont need a d17 valve cover,

you need to deck 40 thou off the block for flush pistons dont mill you head, wain tuntil you have the pistons in the block and measure the ptd height then get that much milled off the block.

just use the d17 timing cog and d17 crank pulley, then no machining needed, also when you use a d17 crank pulley you should switch the pulley on the alturnator to a d17 alt pulley so you have the same groove pulleys, d17s run 5 v belts, you need a different lenght alt belt then oem, ill check the lengh of mine if you do use a d17 crank pulley

you really need
d17 crank
d17 rods and pistons
d17 oil pump
d17 timing cog and crank pulley
d17 timing belt
d16 obd1/0 block
d16 oil pan and pick up for d16 block
d16 rear main seal
d16 head
d16 intake manifold
d16 header
d16 or d17 rear main seal, i have both in hald and they are the same, also i have a d16 one on my d16 stroker block right now


its very simple your changing the crank so you need rods and pistons to match the crank size and stroke (d17 rods and pistons)

then also you need the accessrys to go on the crank(d17 oil pump, timing cog and crank pulley)

then using the d17 timing cog the d17 belt in narrower then the d16 so you also need a d17 timing belt, thats it, the reat can be d16 items

 

[curlybandit]

Thanks for the quick reply!

Just clarify, by timing cog are you referring to the camshaft gear? If so, will a d17 can-gear fit in the d16z6 camshaft?

Please forgive the nubish question. I just want to make sure I don't end up buyin a cam-gear that I can't use.

Thanks!!

 

[Evanguy]

Nope that a cam gear, use a d16 one d17s use a pin not key for alignment. The timing cog goes on the crank infront of the oil pump and behind the crank pulley. Its really a crank gear. Its what the timing belt goes on on the crank

 

[Evanguy]

also if your using the high comp d17 pistons, pms-a00 you cant buy them in anything bigger then 75.5 mm bore since you can only get them from honda,they are $50 each and you can use regular d17 rings, if you are using the usdm d17 vtec pistons (smaller dish then the non vtec) you can get them in 76 mm bore from aftermarket compaines, not honda though

 

[curlybandit]

Thanks again for all the helpful info.

I've taken a look at the zealautowerks calculator in trying decide which pistons to use.

If I go with the PMS-A000 (GX) pistons at 75.5mm I'll have a CR of 12.22:1 with 0.021" piston-to-deck height if I resurface the head 0.010". I wouldn't want to touch the deck since the CR is pretty high already. I don't think I'd want to go any higher.

If I go with the PLR-A0 pistons at 76mm and mill the block 0.040" I get a PtD of 0.00" with a CR of 10.71:1. Unfortunately the calculator doesn't distinguish between decking the block which would bring the pistons closer to the deck at TDC and milling the head which decreases the combustion chamber size and increase compression but doesn't change the PtD value. I would want to mill the head at least 0.010" to resurface which increases the CR to 11:1 but the calculator indicates that the PtD height is -0.01. I interpret that to mean the piston is above the deck by that amount.

But if the deck is still only milled 0.040" wouldn't the PtD height still be 0.00" regardless of how much is taken off the head? I know I would still have to worry about interference with the valves due to a smaller CC size and more aggressive cam.

 

[kingyeddi]

Nothing to add, just peeking. GL with the stroker, theyre fun :]

 

[curlybandit]

I'm picking up a d17 block on Thursday. Still looking for a d16 block. Already picked up a spare z6 head.

Evanguy (or anyone), what components of this build do you recommend be purchased new? Water pump? Timing belt? Gaskets? Etc.

I want to make a list so I can start assembling these items.

Thanks!

 

[Evanguy]

yup, i would get new rings, rod and main bearings, gaskets, water pump and timing belt, you can get away with the oem main bearings from the d17 or d16 block if they look good and plastigauge with in spec and if the d17 rod bearins look go you can use them, if you dont want to reuse the bearings just buy a set of acl rod and mains also you could reuse the rings and just swap the rods, pistons and rings over to the d16. if your going over sized get new pistons and rings to go together.

 

[curlybandit]

yup, i would get new rings, rod and main bearings, gaskets, water pump and timing belt, you can get away with the oem main bearings from the d17 or d16 block if they look good and plastigauge with in spec and if the d17 rod bearins look go you can use them, if you dont want to reuse the bearings just buy a set of acl rod and mains also you could reuse the rings and just swap the rods, pistons and rings over to the d16. if your going over sized get new pistons and rings to go together.

Awesome. Thanks.

I'm pretty excited about this build. Thanks for the help.

Before I forget, will I be able to keep PS and AC with a d16 stroker build?

 

[Evanguy]

yes but then in that case you do want to get a d16 crank pulley machined to fit the d17 crank, it just needs like 3 mm bigger bore and the key recut, it should be about an hour or two at a machine shop, i also work at a machine shop and would do it for free if you pay to ship it up and back, your in canada, so it should be cheap

 

[civicdxude]

didnt read all of this but Evanguy

you said in your first post about switching alternator pulleys?

i didnt do that on mine and the belt fits fine. there is just no divider between it and the ac but im not running ac.

im running a d16y8 block with d17 oil pump.
i drilled a hole in the pump for the dipstick tube and it works just fine. so d17 valve cover in not necessary its just nice lol.


hey Evanguy do you know. is the y8 crank pulley and d17 crank pulley the same diameter?

 

[curlybandit]

yes but then in that case you do want to get a d16 crank pulley machined to fit the d17 crank, it just needs like 3 mm bigger bore and the key recut, it should be about an hour or two at a machine shop, i also work at a machine shop and would do it for free if you pay to ship it up and back, your in canada, so it should be cheap

Great to know. Once I get the d16 block I'll be in touch through PM to get an address to ship it to.

You have to be out on the east coast...

One more thing. A few posts back I asked about the piston choices, milling, CR, etc.

Any thoughts on this?

 

[Evanguy]

didnt read all of this but Evanguy

you said in your first post about switching alternator pulleys?

i didnt do that on mine and the belt fits fine. there is just no divider between it and the ac but im not running ac.

im running a d16y8 block with d17 oil pump.
i drilled a hole in the pump for the dipstick tube and it works just fine. so d17 valve cover in not necessary its just nice lol.


hey Evanguy do you know. is the y8 crank pulley and d17 crank pulley the same diameter?

i changed the pulley just because mine didnt ling up properly i was using a a6 alt bracket and im not sure what alt it was and the belt was one grove over the edge, so i changed the oulley because the d17 one is wider. it has an extra grove or two. but i guess that doesnt have to happen i may have ad somthing going on, i think i posted pics aboiut it in a thread you had at one point about your timing belt walking off the cam gear. im also not running ac.

also yes you can drill the oil pump, i just wanted to stay away form that lol but your right its not nessary but i just figure most people are buying a complete d17 for some reason lol

im not sure ifa y8 is the same a d17, i have a d17 crnak pulley in hand, the Alt pulley and section is 170mm and the PS is 109mm and in inside bore is 28mm, mines from a base model so it didnt have ac or even a spot on the pulley for it. i know a d16a6 crank pulley is alot smaller, i would bet close to 140mm alt pulley.



also for milling and what not i would,
bring the pistons up to deck 0 deck height by decking the block
then mill the head to get around 11:1 comp
and run a oem y8 head gasket, that will give you atleast the thickness of the head gasket 27 thou away from the head and also the z6 head is counter bored, i took mine with 34 thou piston to head and it was a y8 head with quench pads to 8500 rpm all the time and has no issues

and yeah zeal is messed up with the head milling and deck height, i just set the dech height i have or want in the dech height section the use the milling section for changing the comp by milling then never mind the changing deckheight because you already set it in the 212.00 deck height part at the top

your not going to have issues with the piston to valve, i have domed pistons with no valve relefes and 14 thou piston to deck height and a bisi lvl 3 cam and with vtec locked i have over 80 thou valve to piston, 5* advanced and 5* retard from 0* on the cam but always clay the motor when building things with out the parts that came in it

 

[HondaDNA]

D17's use one belt for A/C and alternator (think serpentine belt), so all the pulleys only have two spots.

Glad to hear a D17 alternator pulley works on the D16 alternator. I have a D16 pulley on a C32(NSX/Legend) alternator and lost the original 5 groove pulley that would match the D17 crank pulley and it'll be a lot easier to find a D17 alternator

 

[civicdxude]

i changed the pulley just because mine didnt ling up properly i was using a a6 alt bracket and im not sure what alt it was and the belt was one grove over the edge, so i changed the oulley because the d17 one is wider. it has an extra grove or two. but i guess that doesnt have to happen i may have ad somthing going on, i think i posted pics aboiut it in a thread you had at one point about your timing belt walking off the cam gear. im also not running ac.

also yes you can drill the oil pump, i just wanted to stay away form that lol but your right its not nessary but i just figure most people are buying a complete d17 for some reason lol

im not sure ifa y8 is the same a d17, i have a d17 crnak pulley in hand, the Alt pulley and section is 170mm and the PS is 109mm and in inside bore is 28mm, mines from a base model so it didnt have ac or even a spot on the pulley for it. i know a d16a6 crank pulley is alot smaller, i would bet close to 140mm alt pulley.

oh okay i see why you changed the alt pulley then.

yea im not saying its a good idea to drill the oil pump just saying its an option lol.

and thank you for measuring that. i would have done mine but its on the car witch makes it harder. ill measure up some other pulleys i have and see what differences are.

thank you again you are very informative.

 

[curlybandit]

Just picked up the d17 block. No head but got the valve cover. Picking up a y7 block later this afternoon.

 

[drpancho]

Can this d17 stroker be executed without milling the block and head ?

Example:
D16z6 block, head and gasket
D17a2 crank, rod and piston

CR:9.6:1
Piston to deck:0.031 in

Can this be done and have a less powerfull (near stock) d17 , or is the piston so deep in the block that will not work ?

 

[Evanguy]

Can this d17 stroker be executed without milling the block and head ?

Example:
D16z6 block, head and gasket
D17a2 crank, rod and piston

CR:9.6:1
Piston to deck:0.031 in

Can this be done and have a less powerfull (near stock) d17 , or is the piston so deep in the block that will not work ?

yes that would work fine, and ill bet it will make more power then a d17.

 

[drpancho]

yes that would work fine, and ill bet it will make more power then a d17.

Thanks .

Also for a daily driver can I keep the stock d16z6 tune (ignition timing), and correct only the fuel (lambda values)?