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91 Hatch rally car
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
The rear main seal has worn a groove in the crank seal journal. I think I have 4 options: find a better (new?) crank, get what I have spray welded and machined, find a seal with a smaller inner diameter, or speedy-sleeve it. We tried the speedy-sleeve thing and it pushed oil under the sleeve.

Is there a source for new cranks (the internet has failed me here)? Is there a way to install a speedy sleeve so that it doesn't leak under the sleeve? Can I get a seal with a smaller inner id? I have a machine shop that can do the spray welding thing, but its a bit spendy.
 

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93 4d lx, z6,ported, port matched, compression bumped, balanced, manual swap
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How good is your machine shop? Can they do the necessary heat treating and such to restore the crank to original hardness? Even then I would probably try to source a crank from the junkyard thats in decent shape and just have it turned .010 under and micro polished, probably cheaper.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
How good is your machine shop? Can they do the necessary heat treating and such to restore the crank to original hardness? Even then I would probably try to source a crank from the junkyard thats in decent shape and just have it turned .010 under and micro polished, probably cheaper.
Yes. They do this for commercial engines. Local yards don't sell just cranks.
 

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Its funny the crank i just received from @Oldcivicjoe is going to undergo this exact speedisleeve treatment :)

What did you use under the speedisleeve to try and seal? Or maybe you didnt use anything?

I know most speedi kits have you use red loctite, but ive had issues with the liquid red dribbling out of the groove before the sleeve gets put over it.

Ive since moved to the gel type red loctite for mild grooves, or ultrablack/ultragrey permatex RTV for the really deep bastards, to make sure sealant stays on the crank seal journal and groove, then just give it some time to set.

Fill the groove up with gel red loctite, ultrablack or ultragrey permatex RTV, smooth it over the seal journal with a decent amount of excess, tap a new clean/dry speedi sleeve over the journal, wipe the excess off as it gets pushed toward the #5 main journal, then let it cure for a few hours before running the engine. They don't ever leak.

The loctite/RTV is honestly there just to seal bad surface imperfections. The speedi sleeve stays in place due to the expansion of the sleeve when installed, creating a press fit against the crank journal steel.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Its funny the crank i just received from @Oldcivicjoe is going to undergo this exact speedisleeve treatment :)

What did you use under the speedisleeve to try and seal? Or maybe you didnt use anything?

I know most speedi kits have you use red loctite, but ive had issues with the liquid red dribbling out of the groove before the sleeve gets put over it.

Ive since moved to the gel type red loctite for mild grooves, or ultrablack/ultragrey permatex RTV for the really deep bastards, to make sure sealant stays on the crank seal journal and groove, then just give it some time to set.

Fill the groove up with gel red loctite, ultrablack or ultragrey permatex RTV, smooth it over the seal journal with a decent amount of excess, tap a new clean/dry speedi sleeve over the journal, wipe the excess off as it gets pushed toward the #5 main journal, then let it cure for a few hours before running the engine. They don't ever leak.

The loctite/RTV is honestly there just to seal bad surface imperfections. The speedi sleeve stays in place due to the expansion of the sleeve when installed, creating a press fit against the crank journal steel.
Do you have a part number for the sleeve? I'm not having much luck finding decent b2 or b7 cranks.
 

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Ill be heading to the junkyard this week if you would like me to check for a decent one 😃
 

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Do you have a part number for the sleeve? I'm not having much luck finding decent b2 or b7 cranks.
What's the diameter of the rear main seal journal on the B2/B7 crank? Is it the same as the Z6/Y8?

I have part numbers for speedi sleeves on the Z6/Y8, but i dont want to tell you wrong if the diameter is different.

If they're the same, ill post em up!
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Ill be heading to the junkyard this week if you would like me to check for a decent one 😃
That would be great. Let me know what you find and we can sort the details.
A speedi-sleeve would be quicker and easier, but I have some mods I want to do to the motor and swapping out the crank would be a good time to do the other stuff. We don't have any events for about 6 weeks, so I have time now. We got 2nd in class and 12th overall at Rally Colorado last weekend.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
What's the diameter of the rear main seal journal on the B2/B7 crank? Is it the same as the Z6/Y8?

I have part numbers for speedi sleeves on the Z6/Y8, but i dont want to tell you wrong if the diameter is different.

If they're the same, ill post em up!
I'll see what info I can find and post here. Thanks.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
What's the diameter of the rear main seal journal on the B2/B7 crank? Is it the same as the Z6/Y8?

I have part numbers for speedi sleeves on the Z6/Y8, but i dont want to tell you wrong if the diameter is different.

If they're the same, ill post em up!
This is what I could find real quick, from another forum.
national part number 99315. ID is good but it's too tall. I can deal with the height part easy enough.
 

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This is what I could find real quick, from another forum.
national part number 99315. ID is good but it's too tall. I can deal with the height part easy enough.
Sorry man, that was a wordy sentence i wrote lol, i think we may have gotten crossed. I meant the diameter of the end of the crankshaft, the journal on which the seal rides, the part that the flywheel bolts to, this guy:

IMG_20180930_0006280.jpg


If its the same as the Y8/Z6, then i have part numbers for you :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Sorry man, that was a wordy sentence i wrote lol, i think we may have gotten crossed. I meant the diameter of the end of the crankshaft, the journal on which the seal rides, the part that the flywheel bolts to, this guy:

View attachment 138443


If its the same as the Y8/Z6, then i have part numbers for you :)
I understood you. I looked for the journal size and found a thread that gave the part number for the speedi-sleeve needed. If your part numbers are the same or cross-match, then the journal size is the same.
 

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The part number i have for the rear speedi sleeve for the Z6/Y8 crank is from Fel Pro 16275:


Screenshot_20210609-231908_Chrome.jpg
 

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Grab another new speedy sleeve, this time, have a thin layer of black rtv over the crank prior to sliding the sleeve over it. Let it cure for an hour.

That will solve it without further cost.

Im not a fan of swapping crankshafts unless I also have the rods machined, new bearings, and all tolerances adjusted to match. Do your best to keep everything as a "package"
 

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Im not a fan of swapping crankshafts unless I also have the rods machined, new bearings, and all tolerances adjusted to match. Do your best to keep everything as a "package"
Swapping cranks without sending the reciprocating assembly out for balancing makes me nervous too, but if you have different pistons/rods lined up its a perfect time for it, I should know tonight.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I wouldn't do a crank swap without dealing with bearings and rods.
I guess I have 2 routes to go. Fix it with a speedi-sleeve or replace the crank. The motor runs strong now, so the speedi-sleeve is appealing. On the other hand, I have some forged h-beam rods and a built head sitting around waiting to be installed. We don't have another event until later in the summer, so if I'm going to drop the motor and rebuild it, now's the time.
We built the motor when we built the car 9 years ago and haven't opened it up since. It might be time. ARRRGH...... I hate making decisions.
Thanks for all the input.
 

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I came up empty on a decent one, everything had deep seal grooves 😞
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
I came up empty on a decent one, everything had deep seal grooves 😞
Thanks for the looking. That's what I'm finding from my sources, too. I have one more source to check this weekend, but I'm not expecting much.
I did find a Nippon reman that looks pretty good and will probably end up going that way.
 
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