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Discussion Starter #1
Hey guys ,i've looking around to find some good rods for my D16z6 NA engine.
What i've found so far is :

-Eagle esp H beam
-Scat H beam lightweight (550gram)
-Probe I beam Super lightweight (480 gram)
-Crower H beam

The thing is Crower and Eagle are very good brands and the rods to i guess.But since i'm going NA all the way i think it's best to go for super lightweight rods.(Less rotating mass,more hp)I'm not sure what the Eagle and crower rods weigh ,can't find it anywhere.But since they are H beam they weigh more then a I beam rod.Does anybody got some info about Probe and Scat?The probe rods are very cheap around 250$ on ebay,Scat is a little cheaper then Eagle (290$).And ofcourse the Crower cost the most(+/-700$).
Don't know what the Probe and Scat rods can handle in CHP terms, but i know the eagle can handle around 950chp ,anybody got some info?
Grtz Nick;)
 

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Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
if you are staying n/a, why are you changing the rods? not like you will break one with a n/a d
If i'm staying N.a the bigest thing to gain more hp is More Rpm and more Compression .A D16z6 Around 8500rpm on 11.5 CR and +/-150whp is on the limit of the OEM rods and pistons so i've heard...I'm not going to risk breaking rods or pistons.Also Less rotating mass will give more hp.

Edit: Here on the pump we have 98 and 95 octane gas so i guess i can run a higher CR maybe 12.0:1 ?What can oem rods really take in chp terms?I've heard a lot of things like 160chp max and 180chp max they all say something different...
 

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Brokedick Millionaire
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Two things.....

OEM rods will break, even in NA form, I suggest at least ARP rods bolts.

You comment about rotating mass.....any aftermarket rod will be heavier. I had rod weights somewhere for OEM rods.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
that was going to be my next statement


Oke true the aftermarket rods are heavier but stronger .In terms about rotating mass the biggest change is going to be in the Crank .The rods and pistons to offcourse.I can't really see OEM rods maybe even shot peened ect... being strong enough to take 150-160whp...:noway:
 

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I run stock PM7 pistons and rods with ARP bolts in my 173whp (that's almost 200chp) engine. They haven't broken (yet), but I always feel a little "chilly" when I hit the limiter, set at 8100rpm..

BTW our 98E/95E fuel is rated at RON (Research Octane Number) method. U.S. fuels are rated at R+M/2 methor (Reseach + Motor[tested how it withstands/resists detonation in test engine]). For 98E RON is 98 and MON ~89, so our 98E roughly equals U.S. 93...94 octane and 95E U.S. 91...92 octane fuels.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
:wink:
I run stock PM7 pistons and rods with ARP bolts in my 173whp (that's almost 200chp) engine. They haven't broken (yet), but I always feel a little "chilly" when I hit the limiter, set at 8100rpm..

BTW our 98E/95E fuel is rated at RON (Research Octane Number) method. U.S. fuels are rated at R+M/2 methor (Reseach + Motor[tested how it withstands/resists detonation in test engine]). For 98E RON is 98 and MON ~89, so our 98E roughly equals U.S. 93...94 octane and 95E U.S. 91...92 octane fuels.

Ah oke that's true i knew there was something different with our fuel .
I think the tuner shops around here don't know what they are talking about.Since everyone around here is making that big HP on stock rods .
I'm going to do some more research... anyway eveybody thx for the reactions..;)
 

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CRX KING
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I run stock PM7 pistons and rods with ARP bolts in my 173whp (that's almost 200chp) engine. They haven't broken (yet), but I always feel a little "chilly" when I hit the limiter, set at 8100rpm..

BTW our 98E/95E fuel is rated at RON (Research Octane Number) method. U.S. fuels are rated at R+M/2 methor (Reseach + Motor[tested how it withstands/resists detonation in test engine]). For 98E RON is 98 and MON ~89, so our 98E roughly equals U.S. 93...94 octane and 95E U.S. 91...92 octane fuels.
The stock rev limiter on the PM7 is 7800. I know forces climb quickly at that high of an RPM but I think you're ok with 300 more RPM.
 

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Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
I know for one thing that you can't compare the stress on the rods in a boosted engine and a NA engine.In a NA engine the more rpm you make the more Pressure or harder slams you'll get onto your bearings .This will push out the oil film on the bearing especially on D engine's since the stroke is that big.In a boosted engine the rpm stays around stock (7200rpm)the crank just accellerates faster.
Like Rushi said i do think he's on the extreme limits of his rods .So getting started with after market rods and maybe aftermarket pistons isn't a bad choice if you really want every Hp out of the engine i think.Making the crank lighter is going to be a good option as wel,maybe the oem crank shot peened and take some material off??Or a custom lightweight crank from scat weighs 29lbs(13,154kg)OEM weight is 33lbs(14,969kg)cost 900$...Does anybody know what stock rods weigh ?
 

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i'll have to join the camp of you don't need rods for NA on D. how many ppl actually broken a set of stock rods (even with stock bolts) NA first hand? it's pure speculation/hearsay for most ppl. remix ran with 100% stock internals to 8000 revs *all day long* road racing for 4+ years. it was healthy as ever before being stolen. now, if the engine is apart, adding some rod bolts is a good safety measure.
 

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quick question sorry to tread jack but can someone explain to me how shot peening works
 

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Worst Mechanic Ever!
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I've read on here a lot that stock D16Z6 blocks can make 8000RPMs all day, the stock cam just doesn't make power that high. This is, of course, not firsthand knowledge, so take from it what you will, but of all the broken rod threads I've seen, it's usually turbo'd cars. Again, no first hand knowledge here, just regurgitating what I can remember.
 

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racist-bigot-sexist-homophob
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ARP rod bolts and call it a day. Don't waste your money
 

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ppl used to always say you need to build up LS or B20 for high rpm all motor. it was really just a plot for the aftermarket to sell you rods. magazine sure made it sound like a necessity. same with main bearing caps.

DNR has built 2-3 dozen LSVTEC and B20VTEC motors with stock rods and no main bearing caps. making 200-240 whp depending on configuration and runs on 91 Cali pump gas. 9000+ rpm daily drivers.

We all got (a lot more) interested in the D's lately so you will start seeing motor D data from us. I'm going to dyno my DX auto coupe next week just to gather info.
 

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If i'm staying N.a the bigest thing to gain more hp is More Rpm and more Compression .A D16z6 Around 8500rpm on 11.5 CR and +/-150whp is on the limit of the OEM rods and pistons so i've heard...I'm not going to risk breaking rods or pistons.Also Less rotating mass will give more hp.

Edit: Here on the pump we have 98 and 95 octane gas so i guess i can run a higher CR maybe 12.0:1 ?What can oem rods really take in chp terms?I've heard a lot of things like 160chp max and 180chp max they all say something different...

i run 12.5:1 on 93 octane 27.5 total timing

stock cams don't make power past 7000

oem rods can handle 200 WHP

And that concludes our lesson for the day. Please read chaper 1 entitled "All the stickes" and be ready for your test on Monday.
 
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