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Compression vs Horsepower

15K views 193 replies 27 participants last post by  Belette 
#1 ·
I searched for this but didn't find it.

It is probably different for every motor and depending on other mods but:

How much increase in horsepower will a motor see from (X) amount increase in compression?
 
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#149 ·
Hahaha. You still can't seem to understand what you read. Who said I thought 11.5:1 was the ideal compression for everyone? I live in California where cheeseball 91 is the best we get and it's the compression ratio I decided on for my own build after talking to professional builders and tuners. You don't honestly believe that I'm going to spend anywhere near $2000 on headwork, do you? Why run more timing? How about for more power with greater efficiency? A slightly lean mixture needs more timing and does what? Makes more power. So what about BMEP? You didn't really seem to pose a question.

I'm not stating anyone as all knowing and your arrogance is showing in that statement. I'm claiming that a lot of these people have degrees in what they do, decades of practical experience, and a lot of them win races. I don't need to make mistakes if I can ask questions and benifit from their experience. It's quite an effective tool for staying at the front of the learning curve instead of insisting on bumbling your way through it when you really don't have to. Instead, I make my own mistakes and learn from those as well. Like I said, I don't need to touch fire to find out if I'll get burned like the other guy did. I never stated that I believe everything I read on the internet. I do, however, believe what I read and hear from reliable sources. That's the big difference you seem to be completely overlooking. It's like you're saying "don't believe what college text books say because comic books are total crap!" There's a pretty big difference between the two. Yes, no?

Head work or Tuning? Why not budget for both? No sense in getting head work if you can't afford a tune afterwards. I make the tuner happy by not asking him to make 13.7:1 run on pump gas and I spend a lot less time on the dyno which means less money spent. It's a win/win situation.

Peak VE and peak torque generally happen at the same time.

So are you trying to prove me wrong now or are you just trying to prove that your opinion is more valid than mine? Seems like the latter.
 
#150 ·
Hahaha. You still can't seem to understand what you read. Who said I thought 11.5:1 was the ideal compression for everyone? I live in California where cheeseball 91 is the best we get and it's the compression ratio I decided on for my own build after talking to professional builders and tuners. You don't honestly believe that I'm going to spend anywhere near $2000 on headwork, do you? Why run more timing? How about for more power with greater efficiency? A slightly lean mixture needs more timing and does what? Makes more power. So what about BMEP? You didn't really seem to pose a question.

I'm not stating anyone as all knowing and your arrogance is showing in that statement. I'm claiming that a lot of these people have degrees in what they do, decades of practical experience, and a lot of them win races. I don't need to make mistakes if I can ask questions and benifit from their experience. It's quite an effective tool for staying at the front of the learning curve instead of insisting on bumbling your way through it when you really don't have to. Instead, I make my own mistakes and learn from those as well. Like I said, I don't need to touch fire to find out if I'll get burned like the other guy did. I never stated that I believe everything I read on the internet. I do, however, believe what I read and hear from reliable sources. That's the big difference you seem to be completely overlooking. It's like you're saying "don't believe what college text books say because comic books are total crap!" There's a pretty big difference between the two. Yes, no?

Head work or Tuning? Why not budget for both? No sense in getting head work if you can't afford a tune afterwards. I make the tuner happy by not asking him to make 13.7:1 run on pump gas and I spend a lot less time on the dyno which means less money spent. It's a win/win situation.

Peak VE and peak torque generally happen at the same time.

So are you trying to prove me wrong now or are you just trying to prove that your opinion is more valid than mine? Seems like the latter.

truly, your intellect is dizzying.

<----biding time to leave more neg rep.
 
#154 ·
Run the correct gas for the compression. I agree completely. Is 93 octane the correct gas for full timing with 13:1+ compression? No it isn't. You suck. :)

If you're saying that nobody who's posted in those topics is reputable what's your shop's name and how many races have your engines won? Oh wait, you don't have a shop and your engines don't win where it really counts, unlike quite a few of those unreputable sources. I also have a good friend that builds Winston Cup engines, but he probably doesn't know anything either. Dragman99, you don't know shit. Bring some knowledge or shut the fuck up. All you're doing is letting your gapping axe wound flap in the wind and it's stinking everything up. Oddly enough, there really are people who are learning from this topic. It just isn't you because your head's stuck too far up your own ass.

This has nothing to do with Honda-Tech nazism. You're just being a little bitch because D-Series.org has known issues with the "just swap a B" attitutde of most of Honda-Tech.
 
#157 ·
Run the correct gas for the compression. I agree completely. Is 93 octane the correct gas for full timing with 13:1+ compression? No it isn't. Not for my loser ass b/c my tuning skills are about as bad as my real world experience.:)

If you're saying that nobody who's posted in those topics is reputable what's my shop's name and how many races have my engines won? Oh wait, i don't have a shop and my engines don't win where it really counts, unlike quite a few members at d-series.org. I also have a good life partner that builds Winston Cup engines, but he doesn't know shit either. Dragman99, you know a lot of shit. Bring some more knowledge so i can shut the fuck up. All i'm doing is letting my gaping axe wound flap in the wind and it's stinking everything up. Oddly enough, there really aren't people who are learning from this topic. It just isn't me because my head's stuck too far up my own ass.
This has everything to do with Honda-Tech nazism. I'm just being a little bitch because D-Series.org has known issues with the "just swap a B" attitutde of most of Honda-Tech retards.
 
#158 ·
Wow! When you guys get pissed there's a lot of fun facts flying around. BUT, I've lost the point of this thread, kinda.

From what I read it looks like Crossroads is trying to say that there is a limit to power increase from raising compression. And that possibly at a point if the engine is to run w/out exploding, there is a loss in power from raising compression. And pretty much everyone else is pointing out that they have built "high" compression engines and they run fine and make plenty of power.

Now I'm very new to the world of auto mechanics and will readily admit that most of what I know comes from the internet, secondhand. However; I like to waste time thinking, so I'm going to BS for a while.

Assume: raising compression in a purely theoretical world will raise power. Ok now throw theoretical out the window. Welcome to the real world, hello detonation. now we can do a couple of things to get rid of detination and make the engine run: we can reduce compression, retard timing, get better fuel, or something else that I don't know.

K now assume fuel quality somewhat limited. we can raise compression, but then we have to retard timing. Or we can advance timing and lower compression. Compression and timing both increase power, but are mutualy exclusive, and thus inversly related. So if compression the amount of timing retard is predictable. So it would seem to be possible to graph compression and power for a given engine. that graph would almost have to be a curve with a peak. At that point the retarding the timing takes more power than then further raising the compression gives. makes sense to me.

now where that point is dependant on a whole bunch of different things: like how much money you want to spend on tuning. and the design of the engine and the phase of the moon.

does that seem reasonable???
 
#161 ·
I have talked in person with a VERY well known engine builder (Tony Bischoff), maybe you've been following the PHR Enginemaster competition. He's been a great help and would have told me to STOP if it was a bad idea. he's even hinted at straping it to the engine dyno (not a chassis dyno) where cfm can be measured so accurate VE and BSFC is known. Bisi has also been a great help, he's well known on Honda-Tech also as is Dr. Charles Madrid of Skunk2.

I guess those guys don't have a clue.....

I've been blessed or just smart enough to pick up the phone (before internet) and call to ask questions, you'd be suprised that quite a few will take time out to answer questions, partly the reason I'm always willing to help with transmission info.

Gale Banks
John Lingenfelter R.I.P.
Reeves Callaway
Bisi Ezerioha
Brian Gillespie
Oscar Jackson
Jamie Houseman

and quite a few more on the list.....
 
#162 ·
When you figure out a way for me to post phone conversations on the internet without violation personal privacy laws, I'll start recording my phone conversations. Until then, all I can do is link to posts.

What happens to dynamic compression when VE goes over 100%? That's right, it goes higher than static. One of the major differences between a V8 and Honda is the fact that a V8 will have an incredibly difficult time even getting to 100% VE let alone going past it. By the way, Don Flores has an engine dyno too. Most of the unreputable people I've talked to have their own chassis dynos or access to one anytime they need.

Like I pointed out, I work on a race car that runs 14.5:1 compression. It also runs on 115 octane VP race fuel, is never driven on the street, and was built by one of the more respected builders in Northern California. Like I kept trying to tell you in that transmission topic, I'm neither new nor am I stupid. But much like that topic, you seem incapable of understanding what that means. You can argue about race engines running high compression all you want. That's fine because they run race gas. Street engines run pump gas that doesn't cost $6.50/gallon and would make more power with less compression and more timing. Feel free to ask your sources about it, I know I did. Just remember to include the differences of race fuel and pump gas. I'm quite obviously drawing a line between street engines and pure race engines. If you drop your pride for a few seconds, take a breath, and a step back you'll be able to see what I'm saying. That is, if you actually are intelligent. :)
 
#163 ·
When you figure out a way for me to post phone conversations on the internet without violation personal privacy laws, I'll start making and recording some phone conversations. Until then, all I can do is link to posts.

What happens to my dynamic compression when my vacuum goes over 100%? That's right, it goes higher than a standard vacumm cleaner. One of the major differences between a me and Honda is the fact that a i will have an incredibly difficult time even getting to 100% VE let alone going past it. By the way, Don Flores has an vacuum dyno too. Most of the unreputable people I've talked to have their own felacio dynos or access to one anytime i need.

Like I pointed out, I work on a no cars that run 14.5:1 compression. I also runs on 115 octane VP semen fuel, is never sold on the street, and was trained by one of the more respected crack dealers in Northern California. Like I kept trying to tell you in that transmission topic, I'm neither new nor am I stupid. But much like this topic, i seem incapable of understanding what that means. You can argue about race engines running high compression all you want. That's fine because i run semen fuel. Street engines run pump gas that doesn't cost a 20rock/gallon and would get more pulling power from me with less compression and more timing. Feel free to ask your sources about it, I know I did. Just remember to include the differences of semen fuel and pump gas. I'm quite obviously drawing a line between street engines and pure felacio engines. If i'd drop my pride for a few seconds, take a breath, and a step back i'd be able to see what I'm saying. That is, if i actually were intelligent. :)
 
#167 ·
It's alright if you can't answer the question but at least be man enough to admit it.

You're as predictable as a five year old and your trolling is the reason why we're only 14 posts away from page ten. If it wasn't for you this might be an informative four page topic. I can't seem to find any useful contribution from you when scan through any of these pages.
 
#168 ·
It's alright if i can't answer the questions transzex asked, but at least i'm man enough to admit it.

I'm as predictable as a five year old and my trolling is the reason why we're only 14 posts away from page ten. If it wasn't for me this might be an informative four page topic. But i had to post and can't seem to find any useful contribution from myself when i scan through any of these pages.
 
#169 ·
So what's BMEP and how does it relate to VE? What does BSFC mean and what is a good number for it? How do you find TE?

I've answered all of his questions as far as I know. Hard to tell with you constantly acting like a child and clogging things up with bullshit. You still won't answer these questions because you can't. You're just going to spend time retyping what I say like you've got some amount of wit instead of admitting that you're probably the most ignorant person who's posted in this topic when it comes to engine theory. I can already see how you're going to change this post around because you're that predictable. Can you answer the question or not?
 
#170 ·
So what's BMEP and how does it relate to VE? What does BSFC mean and what is a good number for it? How do you find TE?

I've answered all of his questions as far as I know. Hard to tell with you constantly acting like a child and clogging things up with bullshit. You still won't answer these questions because you can't. You're just going to spend time retyping what I say like you've got some amount of wit instead of admitting that you're probably the most ignorant person who's posted in this topic when it comes to engine theory. I can already see how you're going to change this post around because you're that predictable. Can you answer the question or not?


















ummhhhh, you have mail.lmao
 
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