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According to most of the big name tuners, running much over 12:1 on a street engine has diminishing returns. You have to pull so much timing to run pump gas that you'd make the same power with lower compression.

 

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Feel free to take it up with them. I suspect they're the top tuners in the nation for a pretty good reason.

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I wasn't going to say anything else because I know what's going to happen, but whatever. Check out the WD-40 shoot out. You'll notice that not one of those professionals is building an engine with more than 11.5:1 static compression, so they can run on Cali 91 octane. Dynamic compression is most certainly the best measure of a running engine and valve timing events can most certainly change that. Going by prevailing logic you can 17:1 static as long as your cam is big enough to keep your dymanic under 9.5:1. In reality, this isn't true. You'll have to pull a significant amount of timing to make the engine run properly on pump gas. This is one of the many reasons why high compression race engines don't use the same gas that we use.

 

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screw the tuners, talk to the engine builders..........

Have you read who won the lastest Engine Masters build-off?????

http://www.popularhotrodding.com/enginemasters/challenge/2006/0610em_challenge_results_friday/

Wanna guess who's been helping me?????

Next week Tony's moving his shop to St. Leon, IN......needed more room.

I prefer to stay with Honda engine builders and tuners. It amazing who you can talk to on Honda-Tech.

Rage Racing/Whitfield Tuning
Church's Tuning
RLZ Engineering
Rocket Motorsport
Don Flores
etc.

Seriously, hit the All-Motor forum over there and start asking those guys what they think of high compression in anything other than a race engine. They'll all tell you to run less than 12:1 and get a quality port and polish...for a street engine.

 

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So do you think there is nothing to learn from a v8? Why exactly is their bigger air pump different than your smaller air pump? I would tend to believe people that build pro stock motors (the pinnacle of naturally aspirated) over some guys on ht.

Yeah, Don Flores, JDogg from Rocket Motorsports, Chris Whitfield from Rage Racing, Earl Laskey (R.I.P.), ect. are just random dudes on the internet without any practical experience. Those guys sucks.

I learned a lot about engines from V8s. Then I moved to Hondas, started talking to the guys who've devoted their lives to them, and learned that these are different monsters. I'm going to repeat something I've said before, why don't you go talk to some professional head porters if you want a greater understanding.

So why again is the magical number 12:1. What happens at 12.5:1 that was so different? What if I build my a6 to 11.9:1? Am I safe to run on pump gas?

I don't remember saying anywhere that it wasn't safe. I said you'd make the same power with lower compression because you wouldn't have to pull as much timing. And since I think your next statement was total bullshit, you should try understanding what you read before you mouth off.

In the world of internet forums, there are those that do and those that listen to people that haven't done.

I heard the same thing about stock fuel lines in a foxbody cannot support more than 450rwhp. I saw them support 800rwhp on a twin t3/t4 352" windsor. I heard that the stock TFI distributor cannot run past 7000 or support 600fwhp. I saw a car make over 900 to the tires (On 93 octane!) with a 363 and a precision 88mm turbo and a FAST xfi. Just recently someone told me that ported stock mustang heads (E7TE) cannot flow enough to make power past 4600 rpm, regardless of what was done to them. I built a very budget 347 that made 300rwhp from 4700 to 5800 and 360rwtq off idle with only $2800.

The point is this: if it is within reason, and is mathematically sound, then why does someone's brother's cousin say it cannot be done?

Reading comprehension, the ability to understand what you read.

Not once did I say it wouldn't work. Not once. You jumped way off the deep end there junior.

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I have a question. What is it with you guys and opinions that go against your popular D-Series grain? Jesus fucking Christ guys, there are actually people outside of this forum who know what they're talking about. Believe it or not. In fact, there are even people who do this for a living and win professional race after professional race with the engines they build and/or tune. Some even have their own dynos. But what the fuck do they know, they post on Honda-Tech right? Completely forget the fact that the guys I'm talking about, not your average user, have forgotten more about engine building than most of us have learned.

 

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Here's a fun discussion on the subject containing a few professionals. http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1800121

I'm trying to find some more that contain professional Honda builders.

edit:
Here's a nifty one. http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1734257

 

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First, I'm not a kid. You jackholes assume too much and make yourselves look fucking stupid in the process. The reason why I quote articles is because I know how closed minded this community is. You don't believe anything that anyone says that goes against what you believe. You don't even have the reading comprehension skills to understand what I said. The only thing you all seem to be able to read is "uh...duh...it um, won't work" which isn't even remotely close to what I'm saying.

Why does NASCAR only run 12.5:1 with huge cams and still get 800hp? End of discussion and my involvment in your bullshit community. I'm going to talk to people who are actually knowledgable beyond the mechanical phase of engine building instead of people who have their heads up one person's ass. I feel less intelligent for having even posted on this forum. Flame away, asshats.

 

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Last post. Here's a hint, for your bloated sense of self importance, it's called "cylinder head porting". That's how you make more power with less compression. Fucking idiots. You guys don't even know half of what you think you know.

The only thing I'm hanging is my dick in your wife's mouth.

Damn, I'm out of the cool kid club.

 

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I'll actually reply to that. The rest of the replies have been making me laugh.

The thing that gets under my skin is the constant assumption that I didn't start learning about engines until I signed up for this forum. Being treated like an incompetent bafoon puts people on the defensive really fast, too. This site is too closed-minded to new people. Once again, nobody bothered to ask me what I know they just assumed that I don't know anything. The assumption is that I read a post and thought I was a master builder. None of you have a clue how much time I've spent talking to these guys because I don't have enough posts to matter. Fuck that bullshit. The truly funny thing is that people consider me to be pretty knowledgable outside of this site and that includes professionals I talk to face to face.

Here's the point everyone seems to be missing. You can run lower compression with a properly ported head and full timing on pump gas while getting the same power as you would get at higher compression and pulled timing. The trade off is that your engine is more efficient and less prone to detination. The porting of the cylinder head puts your engine at or above 100% VE before even adding the compression into the equation. You select your RPM range, find CID per cylinder, and then figure out how many CFM you need to reach your horsepower goal. From there you match the IM and TB then select an appropriate cam. Power is in the head and tuning not in the block. This and this alone is my point. When you get right down to it, high domed pistons can disrupt flame travel and hurt power that way. This is where you build an engine as an entire unit instead of trying to poor-boy piece it together. Quite obviously, I did just learn this yesterday, have no practical experience, and I'm really just talking out of my ass. You guys need to climb down out of your fucking trees and stop treating all newbies like they're here to troll your message board with B-Series crap.

 

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How do you tune that resonant wave? Port work on both the head and intake manifold. For that fact, let's get into exhaust scavaging and its effect on pulling the next charge in. The point still stands that just raising compression is the wrong way to build a performance engine and you WILL make the same power with lower compression and more timing. Your engine WILL be more volumetrically, thermally, and mechanically efficient. It's funny that you say porting won't get you over 100% VE. There are several professional Honda head porters who can get 125% VE with 11.5:1 compression. One of them happens to be the guy who built SMSP's A6. I guess you guys just aren't as good as them.

By the way. I'm not rich either, I just believe in doing things correctly the first time. The crossroads I'm at in my life is whether I continue doing what I love and living paycheck to paycheck while getting to spend as much time as I want with my family or making $100k+ a year and spending extended periods away from my family. But thanks for playing internet psychologist.

 

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And transzex and I haven't? Further more, the people on here WITH ACTUAL REAL-WORLD EXPERIENCE have posted their ideas and you ignore them because the gods that be on honda-tech have said its improbable.

You need to read this site. http://www.literacy.uconn.edu/compre.htm. It'll improve your reading comprehension skills so you can actually understand what I'm saying instead of reading what you want to see.

Here you go again with your blanket statements. I am convinced this is your main problem. You regurgitate other people's comments out of context and then apply them to any situation. Do you even know how to calculate VE?

I was under the impression that this was about general engine theory and not about one specific engine. I'm sorry, I wasn't born with this information and I've had to learn from professionals with decades of experience.

VE = (CFM x 3456) ÷ (CID x RPM).

Do you honestly think there are many n/a engines on the street that even approach 95%. Even on honda-tech? An n/a motor that sees 100% VE is one very well built motor. Have you built one?

A Honda that sees over 100% VE isn't even hard to do if you know how to do it. Don't forget that these aren't two valve per cylinder V8s, they're four valve per cylinder Hondas. I'm not a professional head porter so no I haven't ported a head that well yet. The best I've gotten is 99%. Here you go making blanket assumptions.

 

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Ok, what should I do about the professionals I talk to in person? Should I just tell them to fuck off because the internet says so? Should I burn the flowbench and block building books I have and rely on what D-Series says is correct? I don't think so. If I did that I'd be running 14:1 with a "stage 3" cam in a stock head.

A wise man learns from his own mistakes but a genious learns from the mistakes of others. You can insist on taking the hard road if you want, but that's not me. I don't need to cut the corners off a square to find out a round object rolls. I don't need to touch fire to find out it's hot. I don't need to make the same mistakes that other people made 20+ years ago. I'd rather make my own mistakes, which I do. I just have book learning to fall back on instead of internet heresay and my garage. There are proven paths to efficient power.

Yawn indeed.

 

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I've expended less energy doing this than I would've if I would've cut down the dead peach tree in the back yard like I was supposed to have done.

All I ask is that people stop talking to me like I'm stupid and inexperienced simply because they don't know me. I could've quoted a lot of the people I've learned from in person but nobody here would know who they are either and wouldn't give them any credit. They do win races with the engines they build, though. Hell, my first project was helping my best friend in high school convert his '59 Chevy longbed stepside into a shortbed stepside, 15 years ago. I'm not new to turning wrenchs nor am I a professional. I'm just new to the site and have different opinions from what's popular.

 

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but see your proving my point BY REPLYING!!!!!! your keeping the nonsense going...I'm done

Ok, here's your grain of salt. You're a hypocrite since you posted again, too.

Merry Christmas. I just took a bong rip for all of you.

 

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I'm going to tell you the truth, you're a fucking illiterate idiot. Did I say they showed me all of their secrets? No, in fact I quite plainly said that I'm not a professional and I've only been able to get 99% VE so far. You know what makes me laugh? How all of you guys keep saying "don't believe the internet" and yet here you are telling people what they should do. Isn't that, oh I don't know, somewhat hypocritical? Yeah, I think that's the word for it. I'm sorry, if I'm talking to someone through an IM I kind of have to read the internet.

And I'm not selling anything. Not that I think you're going to believe that because you're one of those internet dickwads who thinks all newbies are stupid simply due to their post count. You're a full on tool, dude. Good job. :TU:

 

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I expect nothing less than idiotic flames. "He's differ'nt 'en us...get 'im!"

 

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And you're assuming that I'm different. That makes you an even bigger idiot. Keep the funny pictures coming. Hell, let's get this bitch to 10 pages of this site acting like retards!

 

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Hurry up kiddies, the bandwagon's gonna leave without you!

 

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That one's lame dude. I demand a better one.

 

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Then do the smart thing and stop clicking the topic, dumbass. Fuck, that was difficult wasn't it? You guys do such a good job of trolling your own board but I thought I'd go ahead and give you some encouragement.

That pig fucker picture made me lol.

 

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