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Discussion Starter #21
Cool actually a custom manifold will save me a lot of work , does your intercooler provide enough cooling ,what boost are u running
 

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Meat Popsicle
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I’d love to see someone come up with a twincharge setup that completely bypasses the supercharger.

Seems like it would be relatively easy to do with the stock JRSC design by opening the bypass valve at the point where the turbo is out flowing the supercharger.

Maybe using some kind of stepper motor to control the bypass valve instead of the vacuum diaphragm. Perhaps you could install another MAP before the throttle body and use some kind of controller (Arduino?) to open the valve when the voltage on the intake piping and in the manifold MAP are equal.

Keeping the bypass valve closed during idle and off boost situations would decrease gas mileage but I can’t see that being a huge issue to someone wanting to build a twin charge setup.
 

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MuthaFuckaUppa
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The older Detroit diesels had bypass plates on the blowers that would open up after the turbos started flowing. The older style blowers would become a restriction.
 

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Cool actually a custom manifold will save me a lot of work , does your intercooler provide enough cooling ,what boost are u running
On the stock motor it was about 11psi on this pulley, but it's dropped down after porting etc. Is it enough cooling... Can you ever have too much cooling? Haha.

Seriously though, other people seem to be running this setup successfully. I'm still ironing out a few things that are affecting my temperatures, so i haven't been able to see a real benefit to it yet.

The guy who tuned it though did say he could put in a lot more timing due to lower intake temperatures compared to before, so that's something.
 

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I’d love to see someone come up with a twincharge setup that completely bypasses the supercharger.

Seems like it would be relatively easy to do with the stock JRSC design by opening the bypass valve at the point where the turbo is out flowing the supercharger.

Maybe using some kind of stepper motor to control the bypass valve instead of the vacuum diaphragm. Perhaps you could install another MAP before the throttle body and use some kind of controller (Arduino?) to open the valve when the voltage on the intake piping and in the manifold MAP are equal.

Keeping the bypass valve closed during idle and off boost situations would decrease gas mileage but I can’t see that being a huge issue to someone wanting to build a twin charge setup.
THIS IS how my twincharger works. It uses a honda throttle body that's been gutted of everything but the butterfly and is servo controlled for the bypass. The boost is computer controlled with custom megasquirt code that I wrote. You don't want the bypass closed while pulling a vacuum on the throttle because you'll overheat the air. Transitioning from supercharger boost to turbo boost is tricky and requires the precise closed loop control from the servo.
 

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Meat Popsicle
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THIS IS how my twincharger works. It uses a honda throttle body that's been gutted of everything but the butterfly and is servo controlled for the bypass. The boost is computer controlled with custom megasquirt code that I wrote. You don't want the bypass closed while pulling a vacuum on the throttle because you'll overheat the air. Transitioning from supercharger boost to turbo boost is tricky and requires the precise closed loop control from the servo.
Sweet. Do you have dual MAP sensors?

How are you controlling the bypass to be opened in both conditions? Guessing you programmed it to be open during when the turbo boost meets/exceeds the manifold boost and also opens under vacuum from the manifold MAP?

I had a bypass valve diaphragm that wasn’t working for who knows how long and I never noticed until I tore everything down and checked it
 

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Sweet. Do you have dual MAP sensors?

How are you controlling the bypass to be opened in both conditions? Guessing you programmed it to be open during when the turbo boost meets/exceeds the manifold boost and also opens under vacuum from the manifold MAP?

I had a bypass valve diaphragm that wasn’t working for who knows how long and I never noticed until I tore everything down and checked it
Yes there are two map. One in the manifold and one in the pipe between the supercharger and throttle. It is basically two closed loop boost controllers. The bypass controls the manifold and the turbo map sensor is normal wastegate control. The position of the throttle and transmission gear selection determines the boost target. The target mapping is independent but I usually set them equal.
 

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Discussion Starter #29 (Edited)
Put an H22 in it.
ppl done it too many times , am not a fan of h (way over rated), when you smoke someone with a D sohc well you know ,its not a track car

also i can build a bulletproof d for the price of a second hand h22

am not a big fan of engine swaps unless its realy needed ,if i wanted a swap i could have swapped a 4g64t with a 2wd manual tranny and got 300hp easy

And swaps come with issues > learned that the hard way so am looking for a realiable car with lots of low end power when<Needed>

BTW the car will end up looking very much OEM all metal pipes will be covered by plastic junk even the turbo will be very much hidden its a sleeper build

Yes there are two map. One in the manifold and one in the pipe between the supercharger and throttle. It is basically two closed loop boost controllers. The bypass controls the manifold and the turbo map sensor is normal wastegate control. The position of the throttle and transmission gear selection determines the boost target. The target mapping is independent but I usually set them equal.

hi rabid iam using a nissan electrical throttle of an altima 2006 or something it have a 3 wire

+close -common +open , you can either just apply 12v to close or open or use 0-12 for more control

how is the megasquirt holding ? ,i have heard it have many issues .

am planning to use speeduino for my setup , when not in boost the oem ecu will be used and the speeduino will control an extra injector(s) to correct the AFR and ignation

and why not ur running both the SC and turbo to get more boost
are you running the stock cam?

we use this setup for my brother challanger 2012 with anther sc14 supercharger
worked very well ...stock to boost in one click

i know i know its too way small SC for the v8 engine he just use it for braging and for the sound and it realy give him some hp gain and we like the clutch opreated SC

BTW it looks cool he have two air filters and a reverse T intake .

On the stock motor it was about 11psi on this pulley, but it's dropped down after porting etc. Is it enough cooling... Can you ever have too much cooling? Haha.

Seriously though, other people seem to be running this setup successfully. I'm still ironing out a few things that are affecting my temperatures, so i haven't been able to see a real benefit to it yet.

The guy who tuned it though did say he could put in a lot more timing due to lower intake temperatures compared to before, so that's something.
Well i live were during summer its over 105 degree ,even during the night so cooling should be taken serouisly thats why am going with water intercooler

all parts sent to machine shop lets see what they say

dont blame me for the typos blame the beer x)
 

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Discussion Starter #30 (Edited)
so it been sometime , and after too many brain storming and studying me and the machinist agreed we will fit it entirely different than what people done it before .

am posting this updates so if anyone in the future would like to supercharger a d or Honda can have some options

first with vortex style supercharger , well its a great system BUT it only works with a vortech SC or something tiny like an AMR, also you will have problems with AC pipe and straightness of your drive shaft .

JR style ,,,will these people really had a great effort in R&D for this tight fit which is really hard to duplicate and with the belt issues. and driving without alternator is out of the question.

the "buick SC" guy will this person was an inspiration but his setup is over complicated and over engineered

ME ...hmm we will be using the power steering belt to drive a pulley which will drive a couple of pulleys to get the power to the SC
there will be a pipe fin cooler inside the custom intake
three major things i like about this setup
there was zero body work involved to clear things
its a modular design which i can put a bigger / smaller SC or change the speed of the SC using different pulleys ,even for cooling i can later get a better custom intake cooler
and last readability only concern is power steering belt failure which will keep the car derivable



cost up to now is below 700 usd and half of the cost is for the SC itself
i know i can get a JR SC for a few extra bucks but it wont have a clutch or inter cooler and the sc itself wont be anywhere the condition the one i have.









 

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so your going to have like five belts on there?

I like the homemadeness that it emits .

maybe just the picture but work on the aluminum welding ,don't need to be chasing pin holes..
 

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Discussion Starter #32
yep 5 belts :wacko:

but its is the only way to go , again its a big sc well at least bigger that JR and AMR and we are trying to get the power further inside

about his welding yep the guy isnt the best aluminum welder out there but its not finish yet that box was modified more times than i care to count.

also he is old school just look at the machine behind the engine ,so no cnc no jet cutter only your typical ww2 machinery

BUT it will not cost me a fortune, anyone with access to basic tools can replicate my setup with a different sc and its very reliable

One update ...cutting an automatic intake with the upward throttle is useless as you will end up with 2 shorter runners and 2 longer runner

so you need an intake wide side throttle
 

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Meat Popsicle
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I admire your willingness to go against the grain and try something different. I am curious to see how the supercharger will ft. It’s hard to visualize from the pictures you’ve posted so far. Keep the updates coming!
 

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Discussion Starter #34
x) :D i do hear that alot ,

well my approach is that you have a good or @ least ok base you work on it rather than fitting parts that was never meant to "swaps".

and trying to be as modular as possible to allow for further improvement and there is nothing wrong with some trial and error as long as you do your homework

yep i will share all updates and i appreciate the support from this forum
 

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hi rabid iam using a nissan electrical throttle of an altima 2006 or something it have a 3 wire

+close -common +open , you can either just apply 12v to close or open or use 0-12 for more control

how is the megasquirt holding ? ,i have heard it have many issues .

am planning to use speeduino for my setup , when not in boost the oem ecu will be used and the speeduino will control an extra injector(s) to correct the AFR and ignation

and why not ur running both the SC and turbo to get more boost
are you running the stock cam?
The megasquirt hasn't failed me even though it is scratch built. People can build them from scratch or buy them assembled. I don't know what problems you are talking about but since they aren't all plug-in and idiot proof, there will be idiots blaming the ecu.

I do not need the supercharger to make high boost when the turbo can do it. It uses both until the turbo is making enough by itself. If I keep using the supercharger, the pressure and temperature will be too high.
 

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Discussion Starter #37



Is this a real build or fantasy? Cuz its gonna cost ya
no its not , i have connections son hahaha

nah really , since i deal with these people alot the are really helping me out when it comes to cost, like the machine shop are doing the work on there free time and BTW any body who can weld can get this sh1t done anyway

these are my latest updates , with these measurements you can use most sc without any clearance issues

the cooler is is pc water cooler from ebay that had been modified. the tube and fin cooler doesn't`fit correctly

as i said before this setup isn't for everyone , and am not against the big guys anyway these people had put a lot of R&D into their products which i respect
so basically am reinventing the wheel because i cant find the wheel i want

did i waste alot of time? yes
did i waste alot of money ? no
did it cross my mind to scrap the whole idea yes
is it better than ready made products yes
why ... well i can modify the system to achieve my goal .











 

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Discussion Starter #38 (Edited)
The megasquirt hasn't failed me even though it is scratch built. People can build them from scratch or buy them assembled. I don't know what problems you are talking about but since they aren't all plug-in and idiot proof, there will be idiots blaming the ecu.

I do not need the supercharger to make high boost when the turbo can do it. It uses both until the turbo is making enough by itself. If I keep using the supercharger, the pressure and temperature will be too high.
hello rabid its always nice for you to come by

well i have zero experience with them but all tuners i know just hate them , as per my understanding its something related to the 5 volt reference thing screwing everything so dont recommended to big hp track car and a big no no to a street vehicle and i cant argue with people who does this stuff for a living

after some consulting i was told that i can get away at least for now with just ign retard and some extra fuel

as for your pressure issue i cannot say much , but for temperature if its not a constant thing you could try a co2 cooler which you could build your self and co2 is much cheaper than nos or any other method

one crazy method i always thought about and got the inspiration from a Mercedes limo was an 12v electrical r134a compressor in the back , well that car had 3 "bars" cooled by that compressor and with aliexpress and ebay these days you can get these parts very cheap
 

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Dude that manifold is awesome! +1,000,000 points for no f***'s given on the fab work. Whatever works!

I like the creativity for the homemade charge air cooler, but you have way more balls than I do just "placing" that PC liquid cooler radiator in there lol!

Maybe a suggestion? If I were building that, a concern of mine would be the working pressures/temperatures/vibrations that cooler would be subject to day in/day out. I don't think a PC liquid cooling system radiator was designed to operate in the extremes of what you might find an engine working in. Why not use something like a transmission oil cooler, so you know the component can take a bit of a beating?

I saw in your post that it looks like you tried to use a tube and fin cooler, but had problems. They make parallel flow transmission coolers that don't have tubes sticking out the sides for very reasonable prices:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/UNIVERSAL-13-ROW-10AN-COOLANT-TRANSMISSION-ENGINE-OIL-COOLER-EXTRA-RADIATOR-KIT/401425818956?hash=item5d76d7e54c:g:AWoAAOSw8AhaPjO~:rk:7:pf:1&frcectupt=true

If you used a cooler like the one in the ebay link above, you could drill two holes in your manifold for the outlet ports to poke out of, then weld the outer case that holds it to the inside of the manifold. Hard to explain using text, but see the picture attached I drew to help.

They make that cooler in all kinds of sizes, I'm sure you could find one to meet your dimension requirements!

If you are dead set on using that PC cooler, hopefully you build some sort of plastic/rubber frame for the cooler to sit on, that way it's not aluminum on aluminum just sitting there rubbing against each other. If you don't, that cooler might not last long until it starts leaking!
 

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one crazy method i always thought about and got the inspiration from a Mercedes limo was an 12v electrical r134a compressor in the back , well that car had 3 "bars" cooled by that compressor and with aliexpress and ebay these days you can get these parts very cheap
Those systems were cool, literally! I remember working on an older Merc not knowing what a component was until I leaned against something cold in the engine bay. It was immediately clear it was a fuel cooler, cooled by the A/C evaporator suction line, in between the evaporator heading to the compressor. This way it didn't really affect climate control in the interior of the car, but it used the left over still cool refrigerant to absorb some heat from the fuel!

I can't imaging that method of fuel cooling was any good for fuel mileage, mind you it was probably really good for controlling evaporative emissions!
 
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