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Discussion Starter #1
hello

So am in the process of building a FI 99 civic hatchback

the car was in my family since day 1 of its life as a DD but as it grow older and start breaking up i bought the car wanting to make a fun little car

the car came with the D15z4 engine and automatic transmission and weired ecu with 2 plugs only, some sort of P3S as i recall which is common in cars sold in Asia
the engine was a total loss so i put a ZC Sohc and since manual tranny is as hard to find localy as a unicorn i drove 1200 mile .got my self Two d tranny swap and a d16y8 style Intake but comes little bigger and some other parts which included a near new Blitz supercharger (clutch opreated) and couple of IHI impreaze turbos IHI Rhf5hb

well i rebuild the car to a near zero mile restroation but the car is not fun , its slow dead slow .

i did my newbie search , i do own a car repair shop and am a car guy but more of american stuff and a evo 4 which i had back in the day. so honda in general is challenge that i want to take.

i did visit to the local shops in hope to find an insterting D engine to swap but all ZC sohc or weird stuff like a D16B on a HRV and yes its original

but i found sh1t load of F22 , f23 ,f20 you name it accord engines which i can get for the price of a couple of coffes ar starbucks . but all Automatics , manual f is impossible to find

so am in a pickle i have two blocks ZC and a a d17 and a supercharger which is capable of 4 psi boost i can get my hand on ZC and F engines . and two complete D tranny swaps.which one is already in the car . which some people say its good some say its weak.

and i orederd a speeduino to control what ever will be in the car.

So if i want a fun car lets say 200-250 hp which i can drive for long rides what should i do.

A D rebuiled will save me alot of work but will cost an arm and leg + international shipping.

An F will be cheap but require alot of work

And yes the SC is in the process of getting welded on the intake manifold to ceate something similar to JR SC.
And i choice the IHI turbo to creat a low end power and minmum lag
 

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Discussion Starter #2
my idea for the f swap is to get the engine with the auto tranny cut the bellhouse of the auto tranny and welded on the d tranny , for all i know it might work or its dump as ****.

so please bear with me
 

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I'd forget the twin charge system. It's not going to be easy to design the system to switch to/from the different charge systems (turbo/supercharger), and unless you're running bypasses then either the supercharger is preventing the turbo from being efficient, or the turbo is preventing the supercharger from being efficient. Plus routing the charge piping through coolers etc... Nightmare to design, nightmare to work on and more things to go wrong.

Your power goals are very achievable with a small turbo which wont have the lag hole you would need to plug with a supercharger.

I'm fairly sure i've seen off the shelf F to D series adapter plates which allow you to bolt an F series to a D series trans. Google "F to D series adapter"

Out of interest, was the supercharger originally OEM to a car? Or is it an aftermarket item?
 

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Discussion Starter #4
well your right the twin charger is a bit complex , i might ditch the turbo and keep it for anther project if i can get away with supercharger only .

i prefer the supercharger because its clutch control like your ac compressor and it sounds real nice.

But do you have an opinon on engine choice.

yes that supercharger was an oem aftermarket kit by biltz that doesnt void your warrinty. its more popluar in the east.

from my experience its some sort of Aisin 500 with long shaft roots blower type
 

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Discussion Starter #5
BTW Aisin is very popular among old timers trying to get more power from 4 cylinder engines

and in the civic case it fits so nice your a left for space to put a water-air intercooler

and if you dont want AC you can fit in the ac compressor location
 

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well your right the twin charger is a bit complex , i might ditch the turbo and keep it for anther project if i can get away with supercharger only .

i prefer the supercharger because its clutch control like your ac compressor and it sounds real nice.

But do you have an opinon on engine choice.

yes that supercharger was an oem aftermarket kit by biltz that doesnt void your warrinty. its more popluar in the east.

from my experience its some sort of Aisin 500 with long shaft roots blower type

I'm not sold on the clutch type supercharger, I think the good thing about a supercharger is the linear response you get when rolling on and off the throttle. I think that feeling would be ruined by engaging/disengaging the supercharger based on a TPS signal for example. You would feel the engagement shock before the boost overcomes the parasitic drag. Imagine the feeling of your AC engaging every time you accelerate hard... Of course, you could control it manually, but what would be the point? You'd just leave it engaged...

Also i don't think you will see anywhere near your power goals with that supercharger on any of the motors you're thinking about. Also i doubt you would need to aftercool the charged air if you're only seeing 4psi.

I like superchargers too, i'm running a jackson racing charger on my ZC, aftercooled. Seeing around 10psi. Makes around 170hp atw.

The F series is an underrated motor, and the extra torque you'll see from 2.2L would be much more impressive than the 4psi supercharger on a ZC. But if you can't afford to ship a manual transmission, i'd probably go with the ZC because it's easier.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I'm not sold on the clutch type supercharger, I think the good thing about a supercharger is the linear response you get when rolling on and off the throttle. I think that feeling would be ruined by engaging/disengaging the supercharger based on a TPS signal for example. You would feel the engagement shock before the boost overcomes the parasitic drag. Imagine the feeling of your AC engaging every time you accelerate hard... Of course, you could control it manually, but what would be the point? You'd just leave it engaged...

Also i don't think you will see anywhere near your power goals with that supercharger on any of the motors you're thinking about. Also i doubt you would need to aftercool the charged air if you're only seeing 4psi.

I like superchargers too, i'm running a jackson racing charger on my ZC, aftercooled. Seeing around 10psi. Makes around 170hp atw.

The F series is an underrated motor, and the extra torque you'll see from 2.2L would be much more impressive than the 4psi supercharger on a ZC. But if you can't afford to ship a manual transmission, i'd probably go with the ZC because it's easier.
Well your right on everything except the clutch in the yaris yes it controlled by the tps. BUT we use it in anther way in DD its off ,when we need it we usuly turned it on from standing still .
as for the PSI we usully change the pulley to get more out of it( i can get more than 10 psi) and since its used for short peroids it doesnt effect the supercharger at all .

and it been used this way on toyota 4age , 1990<bmw , VW aircoold and so many engines with alot of sucess for longer than a rember.

BTW JR is as per my understand is an aisin with a small pully to drive it faster and a nice intake

supercharger are made by a few compaines as per what i know and are white labeld to alot of companies.

Thank you for your input btw its highly appreciated

my car is already swapped with a D manual transmission and i a have a spare swap , But for a B or F or H manual transmission i would need to order it from japan and wait for up to a year to get and after i get it something might be missing or wronge so am not trying to be cheap am just being realstic.

so what are trying to say , keep the zc or get a f22 or f23

if i keep the ZC do i need to upgrade the internals .

BTW

if a F block can work with a D tranny i can change the bellhouse of the D tranny for a cost of 90 USD

the F engine complete cost me 250 usd
 

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Well your right on everything except the clutch in the yaris yes it controlled by the tps. BUT we use it in anther way in DD its off ,when we need it we usuly turned it on from standing still .
That makes more sense.

my car is already swapped with a D manual transmission and i a have a spare swap , But for a B or F or H manual transmission i would need to order it from japan and wait for up to a year to get and after i get it something might be missing or wronge so am not trying to be cheap am just being realstic.
There's a few f series manual transmissions on ebay at the moment, you wouldn't need to wait anywhere near that if you ordered from there.

so what are trying to say , keep the zc or get a f22 or f23

if i keep the ZC do i need to upgrade the internals .
Whether you need to upgrade depends on a few things. I ran mine at around 11psi for a couple of years. Did a couple of skid pan days and drag strip events without issue. Make sure you've got a good tune and it should be fine if you keep it around or under 10psi. Just make sure you manage your IAT's.


if a F block can work with a D tranny i can change the bellhouse of the D tranny for a cost of 90 USD
I'm not sure what you mean by change the bellhousing of the D tranny. To make it compatible you'd need either an adapter plate, or to line up the input shaft and weld/drill holes that line up with the crank case so you can bolt them together.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
ok bellhouse changeing is that you bring two trannies the one that you want to use but doesnt fit the engine and a damaged tranny that fit the engine you cut the bellhouse i mean not you but a machine shop and weld

i decied for the engine i will use a b20b with exterinal wiring for the speeduino
and my ZC i will rebuild it with better pats and keep it. am also thinking to get my hands on a del sol so it will be useful down the road

As for FI i will fit the supercharger first and tune and see how it goes then decied later

taking to many major upgrades at single time can cause too many issues

BTW the supercharger of this types doesnt require a bypass if its off, because it alows air to "leak " through so the only problem "theoretically" is the piping so if i remove the stock fans and install a nissan multi speed fan in the back with two fans up front might solve this issue the end result will be a very nice powerband with high low end power
and not need to rev the engine crazy
i dont know why i cant post picturs but when i have more interseting pictures to post i will look into it
 

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Discussion Starter #10
i just found out that the bell house swap trick wont work in this case ....

so it seems that am sticking with a ZC for now i will keep the b engine get a B tranny and a del sol
 

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BTW the supercharger of this types doesnt require a bypass if its off, because it alows air to "leak " through
Whether it leaks or not, if you don't bypass it it'll drastically reduce the power of the turbo when you're out of the efficiency range of the turbo. Also the turbo will restrict the supercharger if it's not bypassed.
 

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Whether it leaks or not, if you don't bypass it it'll drastically reduce the power of the turbo when you're out of the efficiency range of the turbo. Also the turbo will restrict the supercharger if it's not bypassed.
This depends on the Supercharger.

My Twincharger setup uses a SC14 with A/C clutch so it turns off when needed.
So Pressure ratio multiplication can be more manageable.

Also make sure you use a huge bov, like 50mm or larger.

On my ver 1 setup I used a 1g DSM BOV too tiny couldn't release pressure fast enough with throttle plate closed.
End up make the Turbo bark and reverse flow, wrecking havoc on bearing and compressor wheel.

Also look up Rabid's Twincharge build on here if you are using an eaton/screw/JRSC style blower without a/c clutch for ideas o bypass.
 

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Hello being a Honda sucker I bought anther hatchback 😁

So the progress up to know is I bought a good d16y7 for the red one and installed a fpr
The blue one will get a b20b

My question with my setup what is the proper CR that I should consider
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Thanks for the support everyone

This project is alive , one major thing is that i got anther ek x)
the one that will get twincharged is the red
The blue will only get b20b and just be a DD


So what is done up to now. not the fastest but what to do job ,family ......

upgraded the fuel pump (chevorlet something 3500cc engine)
Fuel Pressure gauge and FPR (EBAY)
Fresh D16y4
turbos i have a nissan 16v , and IHI vf25 and IHI VF32 from a JDM legacy.
BOV 42mm active autowerke , it seems that i need to change it later once i get all working properly even .
Boost controller HKS evc 3 (will be replaced later)


starting next week all the parts will be sent to my local machine shop for custom intake and all the fitting work i found this picture and i like the way the fit the SC

 

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I had a twin turbo subie with those turbos. the VF32 wouldn't come on song until like 4500rpm leaving a huge boost gap between the primary and secondary turbos. I've seen it called 'the valley of death' haha.

The nissan turbo should work well. I'd wonder if the Subie turbos might not be sized right for a 1.5.

That manifold looks cool.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
thanks for the info ,i have been searching alot about these turbos all i could find JDM legacy 450 cfm ,

i think that the vf32 issue is from the wastegate and the design of the exhuast inlet , it have the largest wastegate acurator i have ever seen.


BTW i am using this book as a referance "Maximum Boost by Corky Bell" great book
and since its an old book it covers 90s cars very well with cost effective solutions without any shortcuts

Like for fuel ,ignition and engine internals
 

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Discussion Starter #18
So today using my mock up engine
IMG_20181122_174531_1542899382190.jpg
IMG_20181122_174555_1542899426035.jpg

tried to see how it all goes and decided against manifold fited SC since intercooler fitting will be hard and if a small intercooler to be fitted a weight issue may happen because I don't see how the studs will carry the weight so I will the vortech system to fit it with driveshaft driving the SC above the exhaust manifold _1200px__VORT_1244-568x-frontengine1_1542899360228.jpg
 

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So today using my mock up engine
View attachment 125323
View attachment 125325

tried to see how it all goes and decided against manifold fited SC since intercooler fitting will be hard and if a small intercooler to be fitted a weight issue may happen because I don't see how the studs will carry the weight so I will the vortech system to fit it with driveshaft driving the SC above the exhaust manifold View attachment 125321
I'm running a manifold cooler:



You can see the coolant ports coming off the manifold. It doesn't really add any weight to the system. I'm also running a 5mm thermal gasket... I bought ARP studs which are advertised as being longer, but they don't thread the last 5mm of the stud, so they're actually shorter than OEM, so i had to run the original OEM studs which are carrying the charger system fine.
 

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The main benefit of the manifold mounted supercharger is the throttle response because there’s less volume to fill between the supercharger outlet and the intake valves. Throttle response will decrease as you move the supercharger further away and add additional volume with extra piping.

Like 92CXyD said, Rabid (user here) successfully built a twincharge setup and had good results road racing it. You should search for his thread. Prob a lot of great info there.
 
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