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Discussion Starter #1
hello guys.

for a while now i have been working on a turbo setup and i have had it running a while. its kind of a bunch of parts all put together over time but it does pretty well but im having a problem but we will start with a parts list.

ported d16y8 head shaved .025
ferra flat faced valves
crower 63443z stage 3 cam (note the cam this is where my question is)
AEM cam gear (y8 or z6 im not sure)

d16z6 block decked flat
75mm vitaras
eagle stock length rods

Junk2 intake mani
go autoworks turbo kit
(ram horn and charge piping and stuff)
turbonetics 6157 turbo
tial BOV
tial Wastegate 14.5psi springs
3 inch downpipe no exhaust after that.

heres some pics to keep you guys interested.




the car has been running since october of 2018 and the one thing about it is out of boost the car is way low on power. i mean its a big cam but i wouldnt think it would be that bad.
so when setting up this engine to get the timing to work we had to advance the cam 4 degrees (2 mmarks on the cam gear) just to get the engine to 16* with the distributor locked all the way advanced.

the car feels great once boost comes in again its at 14.5 psi. the boost doesnt start till like 6000 or so. it feels like it pulls all the way to 8500 no problem.

well we go the car on the dyno and it tells a slightly different story. it doesnt pull to 8500 at all lol. power drops hard after 7500 even with this big cam. we did go ahead and try to advance the cam to 10* (5 mark on the gear) just to see what it would do. well it lost power everywhere doing that. so we put the cam back down to 3* (was at 4* to get it to time right but we tried 3* to see what we could get) now sadly my buddy made some changes to the tune above 5k (he pulled fuel above 5k) this made the most power of the day great but was it the fuel or the cam? well it made more power 3-4k as well even though he didnt touch the map there at all.

so i would think retarding the cam (still 3* advanced) helped with power.

so my question is am i just over cammed? i mean the engine is at like 8:1 CR with one of the biggest cams you can get. i have a delta 272-2 laying around and had it in the engine before i put the bigger turbo on and it seemed to run well.

would i be better off going back to the 272-2? would this help spool the turbo quicker? you think this would help carry the power curve longer?

basically just looking for insight and thoughts on what i should do to help my car all around. thanks for any help guys. here is the graph from the other day at the dyno.


(i dont think the boost pressure is right as the map sensor never sees above 14.5 maaayyybe 15psi)
 

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BATSLOMAN GIVES NO FUCKS.
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the dist is locked at full advanced? Id find where the stock timing of the cam out be, then go from there since you don't know if you have a z6 or y8 cam gear.
 

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Go back to ground zero with timing. Zero out the cam, center the distributor in teh grooves.

jump the service connector, and see where it lies.

Is the cam gear proper? about 4 degrees makes sense for being the incorrect one (Y8 vs Z6)

All AEM gears have the part number marked, so check it out. If the label/marker wore off, it SHOULD be imprinted on the back side of the adjustment center

I think the real number difference from Z6 to Y8 is 3.75 degrees, so if that needs to be done, perhaps the distributor is close to being spot on.


As far as low on power out of boost....

Reset the valve lash. Open up the exhaust to 2 thousandths more, and intake, get it another 2 thousandths also.

This will rule out valve lash keeping the valves open from being tight, and will help with the larger overlap of the big cam.

Of course, it will tick/rattle more with the loose lash, but at least you can figure out if the power loss was from bad lash.


The harder you beat on teh D series, the faster the lash goes out of whack.

With my old all motor D15 that made 140-150whp, I had to set it every other oil change since I treated it like it owed me a lfie time of lunches!


EDIT EDIT, I cannot remember if stock lash is 07-09 intake/09-11 exhaust, but just safely assume 9 IN 11 EXH, and add 2 thou more to rule out valves staying open
 

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Discussion Starter #4
when i first put the engine together i had one of those old AEM gears you know the ones that where solid aluminum with just the 3 bolts. i was 99% sure it was a z6 gear and i couldnt get it to run with it. thats when we went back to this gear and still had to adjust it.

either way i will look closer at the timing again. should i actually properly degree the cam? ive never done it but i can figure it out.

also am i thinking correctly that its a z6 cam so it needs timed like a z6 right? i could throw on a z6 cam gear possibly and just see if that puts it in the right place or not. just kind of thinking out loud here.

as for valve lash. i set them at .008 intake and .010 exhaust with engine cold. i just did this before the dyno (and a few times before due to messing with camshaft stuff.) so i can try loosening them up a bit more after i verify timing is right.
 

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MuthaFuckaUppa
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519 Posts
I don't trust cam pulleys or the crank pulley. The degree marks are nice to tune with after you zero everything. My z6, with .024 milled off the head, was not where it should have been on my AEM gear.

What are you tuning with? You need to set your base timing on the ECU to match your engine as well.

Zero everything, then start making changes.

I use a piece of sheet metal bolted to the cylinder head that reaches around in front of the cam sprocket for reference. I also use a dial indicator to find TDC on number one and start zeroing everything out. Like in my case your cam sprocket most likely will not read zero while your cam and crank are, but you can find a number to start with.


Also your turbo is still making boost, however you are not seeing increases in power. The engine is not flowing enough, or your exhaust in is not flowing enough. This may correct itself when your cam is where it needs to be.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
how would i zero the cam if i cant trust the gear? like i know the y8 gear wont time correctly (possibly my main issue here) but i need to know where to put the cam in order to time it right thats why i was thinking a stock z6 cam gear?

i often use a long screw driver in the spark plug hole to find piston tdc but i can use a degree and piston stop to find it if i have to. but that doesnt help me find the cam zero.

i am using neptune for tuning. i can lock the base timing in neptune and do when setting base timing with the distributor.

as for exhaust flowing. no reason it shouldnt be flowing. other than cam timing being the issue as you suggested.

based on this image i found to do with cam gears and such


i think im using a y8 cam gear and i know its a z6 cam. then i advanced the cam 4* because with the cam gear at 0 i couldnt get base timing set as the dizy was advanced all the way.

so strange findings but i think i need to retard the cam gear to -4.5* and that should set the cam closer and maybe it will time alright? just something im going to have to start with.

again i may throw a stock z6 gear on it and and see where it puts my cam compaired to wwhere i have it now?
 

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MuthaFuckaUppa
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I am trying to remember how I did it exactly. I thought I had pictures, but I can't seem to find them.
I reamed out a spark plug, and fit a rod through it to use with a dial for TDC on the bottom end. I think I found the specs on a stock cam online and degreed it in. 9 Years ago I was just looking through my old posts.
You have an after market cam it should have cam with a cam card to find center line on your cam. Set your adjustable to 0 and degree you cam in.
When I went to put the belt on the teeth would not line up perfect, so I held the cam in place and loosened the adjustable cam sprocket to line up. Now it should have been about 2 degrees off, from milling the head, but I think the Skunk sprocket read closer to 4 degrees. again IIRC. It took a few tries to get it perfect.
 

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goofy built shane from the same shop as PFI Speed on youtube recently did a cam degree video, and I think it was on a B series, so the math will be similar or same.

Worth at least a check out to see if something simple was missed.


To verify which camgear you actually have, go on google and print out a circle with 360 degrees of tick marks, and balloon or shrink it as necessary to fit the cam gear.

tape it on, mark out the notch in the hub, the gear's timing marks, and the up indicator if it is shown. AEM should also have the side markers for the head surface just like the OEM gears do.

Then you can mark out where the notch lies when compared to the "UP" mark/indicator, or 0Degree mark.


Might be a little bit of a pain in the ass, but should get you started
 
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