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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Like the title says, first two were basic teardowns.
This third one will be from rod bearing failure (#4 had rod slap already from 2,500rpm onwards)

#1, #2 & #3 were also bad. Upper bearing half were scraped to the brass layer.

They were from oil delivery failure at 8k. Stock aging Y8 oil pump, absence of an oil pressure gauge, and regular Honda LEV 10w30 did me in. So that's the story.

So would you guys recommend that I throw away those ARP rodbolts already instead of even thinking about it? :(

Should they have been fatigued by now? I don't know how to measure bolt stretch or whatever... I suppose a machineshop can do that. But should I even still consider it?

Add: I've always torqued them as per ARP torque specs with their moly lube and all...
 

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Like the title says, first two were basic teardowns.
This third one will be from rod bearing failure (#4 had rod slap already from 2,500rpm onwards)

#1, #2 & #3 were also bad. Upper bearing half were scraped to the brass layer.

They were from oil delivery failure at 8k. Stock aging Y8 oil pump, absence of an oil pressure gauge, and regular Honda LEV 10w30 did me in. So that's the story.

So would you guys recommend that I throw away those ARP rodbolts already instead of even thinking about it? :(

Should they have been fatigued by now? I don't know how to measure bolt stretch or whatever... I suppose a machineshop can do that. But should I even still consider it?

Add: I've always torqued them as per ARP torque specs with their moly lube and all...
You can use them again. Just inspect them for damage/Stretch. If any of the rod bolts have taken a permanent set and have stretched by .001˝ or longer you should replace the fastener IMMEDIATELY! The stretching is a sure indicator that the bolt has been compromised and taken past its yield point. http://www.arp-bolts.com/Tech/TechInstall.html
 

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It depends on which ARPs, how hot they got and if they have not stretched beyond yield.

What does ARPs website say for the type you used. They make quite a few grades of rod bolts.
 

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It depends on which ARPs, how hot they got and if they have not stretched beyond yield.

What does ARPs website say for the type you used. They make quite a few grades of rod bolts.
The info above was taken from their site. I just cant find the exact length they need to be.
 

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I would say rod bolts are $100.00 if your unsure about them, just replace them so you don't doubt yourself.
 

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sounds like you had quite a few issues with your engine. i'm the kind of guy who is better safe than sorry so ya I would replace them. especially after what happened this time around.
 

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also, after 3 teardowns.. why reuse a stock oil pump that has a bunch of miles on it??? i wouldnt blame the oil.. seems like something else is causeing the issue.. do you check clearances before assembling the bottom end?
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Thanks for the response guys!

boostfreak:
Ya i know what you mean about not blaming the oil. It's just a simple case of me trusting parts too much. The bearings were spotless on the first two teardowns. ARPs were torqued consistently to 26ft/lbs.
BUT i never did any oil delivery mods to the pump, oil holes etc. I didn't even buy an oil pressure gauge. The car has 120,000 kilometers in it. Pretty high? I've no idea too. It's all been city driving and traffic since 1998 LOL.



Thanks to my last ported IM mod and subsequent retune, I was starting to make some REALLY good, clean, detonation-free power when this happened.

I guess it's one of those cases where you just have to be way ahead of things. And that time i was not.

If i had a pressure guage at that time i would have seen it before it happened.
Bearing #4 was scorred bad. Farthest journal from the source. Y8 block. Stock oil system.

Yes i trusted parts too much and fell asleep on things. Lesson learned....again hehehe.

Anyway, I think with normal teardowns, you can reuse these rodbolts for as many times as you want.

But with bearing failure producing so much slack to make rod knock, i think the bolts could have been fatigued from the tugging and as Pat said, we don't know how much heat was conducted to them.

Maybe I'm wrong coz i'm only visualizing this on my own. But I'm imagining the type of (tugging) stress along the rodbolt threads brought by the loose bearing clearance is enough reason to conclude that this time around, they should not be reused, regardless of stretch readings.

Do i have the right idea?
 

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If they are not stretched or turned blue they are probably OK.

ARP do make a whole range of bolts from different materials. You need to know which ones you have as they behave quite differently to repeated loads.

ARP 2000 are the most common for SBC engines. I don't know about what they supply in Honda rod bolt sizes.

Are they replacements for Stock Honda rod bolts or are they bigger bolts from after market rods.

If they over stretched while running, you would see some fretting on the parting line of the cap.

If you run it hard you really do need an oil pressure gauge. It does not need to be fancy, but it needs to work and be where you see it.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Ya, thanks, that's awesome Pat!
I will buy a direct feed gauge, not those fancy electronic style stuff with sending units capable of thinking differently LOL

Anyway, the ARP rodbolts i have are the OE replacement, standard fit ones. I wish I had more info regarding their make, but that's about all I know.

The fretting on the parting line area of the caps, i will DEFINITELY inspect them.

THANK YOU SIR!
 

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In view of the not fully understood or explained bearing failure, I would very carefully inspect the parting lines, the bolt and nut seating surfaces, the size and shape of the big end bore. Particularly look to see if the parting line is pulling in to reduce clearance there and wiping the oil from the journal.

As the big end stretches and becomes longer perpendicular to the parting line from rod inertia over TDC, the big end goes oval shape and gets tighter at the parting line.
 

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The best ARP are extremely good, but they make about 8 different grades. They all have their strengths and weaknesses.

http://www.arp-bolts.com/Tech/TechMetals.html

http://www.arp-bolts.com/Tech/TechMetals.html

http://www.arp-bolts.com/Tech/TechMetals.html

Some can be used over and over. Some can't.

http://www.arp-bolts.com/Tech/TechInstall.html

http://www.arp-bolts.com/Tech/TechWhy.html

The real test is to measure stretch. Each bolt will have a safe stretch level.

http://www.arp-bolts.com/Tech/TechWhy.html

If even the best is damaged by engine failure, will no lo9nger be the best.

Actually the best overall bolts are the SPS Carr fasteners that SPE make specifically for Carrillo.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
wildlatino89: Ya well like i suggested, if it was a case of normal teardown then it's ok to reuse over and over. But in my case, those rodbolts have been subjected to "tugging" (for the lack of a better term) after the bearings' clearance became loose and started to knock on the journals at certain crank angles.
This puts a tremendous amount of stress on the rod bolts themselves. Add to this as Pat said, the heat from the bearing-to-journal contact that creeps to the bolts at the same time they are tugged just theoretically makes things worse.

And i dunno if those ARP rod bolts are designed to be resilient enough that you can reuse them after something like this.

Pat: I will be replacing the crankshaft and all connecting rods, buy new acl race bearings, port and shim a brand new oil pump etc. Should I still be looking out for those parting lines and big end stretching that you mentioned? I suppose not anymore right? (Sorry, I'm just trying to understand this real thoroughly). And thank you again.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
I've done it.
Really? Well like i said this whole thing was just in my mind. It would certainly be great news to hear it's been done with success.

Coz why would i throw them away if they can still work 100% fine...?

Btw, this has happened to a boosted motor am I correct?
 

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If the parting line is hammered or the big end has pulled egg shaped and bent the bolts even 0.0005" I would not use them again.

If you replace them you should keep a build book with the original lengths noted so next time you know for sure if they are OK or not.

To be frank, they are probably OK, but if not the cost of carnage is pretty high compared to a set of bolts, especially when everything else is replaced.

I know this does not really help.
 
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