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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
What are your thoughts about this situation? Or do you have no clue what I'm talking about because the news isn't making a big deal out of it. If you don't know what I'm talking about google it.

While I'm not sure that mr. Bundy is 100% in the right, I think it is a great thing that people from all over the country came there to defend against the gov. I've been growing sick of how we as Americans have just been bending over and accepting what is handed to us, today I have a smile on my face and hope and pride in my heart. We still have defenders.

To get a gov agency to back down and pack up shop is an amazing thing.

I'm not some anti gov guy, I just don't like all this gov control and want to keep my freedoms that I feel are slipping away.
 

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It's an interesting states rights issue. I am surprised the state didn't back him more. The way I am understanding it is that the land was taken over by the gov via eminent domain way back in the day. I figured the state would jump in and back him in an attempt to require their land, though I am sure they stood to lose federal tax dollars if they did.
 

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I am totally against big guberment, however he was notified in the early 90's that he would no longer be allowed to have his herd graze on the public land he had already been using.
Once notification was given to him it is his responsibility to keep his herd on his land, not the land that had now become federal land.

I like that we the people can stand up to our government, I hate that most are so stupid that they rise up to fight the wrong things.

MY stance...
 

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93 del Sol Si
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All it means is that the feds will take it to the courts- a place where they can drag it out until it bankrupts Bundy and they win no matter what. I hope I'm wrong, but that's the way they've done in the past when the attempts to bully citizens into submission didn't work out. The only reason this didn't turn into another Waco is all of the social media coverage that made it impossible to spin with MSM manipulation...

Tin foil hat? Maybe... but I'm just looking at history and it's patterns to decide what to expect of it. That, and I've got a twisted nut that's driving me batty today! :(
 

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Its interesting to me how the government gave out the land cheap to settle it then took it back from certain families decades later where the resources where worth it, for grazing, or timber, you name it.

All in the name of "preservation", I understand in some places this is needed to keep us from ruining places of great beauty for profit, but then they get to do that for their own gains?

More recently there is the urban growth boundaries, they raise your taxes till you have to sell or go bust if you have a small farm or piece of land with in certain distance from a growing city be warned.
 

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93 del Sol Si
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Some of the comments that Reid has made make one wonder if he's not trying to get a shooting war started in an attempt to provide yet another excuse for banning firearms... sadly, he won't get the fact that his actions are the EXACT reason that the founding fathers made a point of stating that our right to bear arms pre-exists the government and that right shall not be infringed!
 

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This whole situation is very sticky, complicated, convoluted, and I have a feeling it's far from over.

On one hand, you have the Bundy's. They claim their ancestors and generations of family members have been using the land for their cattle for many, many years. They are trying to keep their cattle healthy and in turn, need to run the herd(s). They claim the federal government has no business enforcing the rules due to it being state land. The state is not really saying anything.

On the other hand, you have the BLM and federal government. The feds are saying that they notified the Bundy family back in the 90's that there is a grazing "tax" and that the Bundy's have never paid (nor will they ever pay, according to the Bundy's) the "tax". The feds are claiming there is an endangered tortoise "community" on that land, and that the grazing cattle could harm that "community", therefore they need to "tax" all cattle grazers.

When something doesn't make sense, or seems too weird/complicated to understand, ALWAYS look for the money. It turns out, the federal government is in "cahoots" with China to install a solar/wind farm on that land, and has been raising the grazing "tax" for years (possibly in an effort to drive everyone off of it and financially break those that still try to pay) in order to "clear" the land so that they can start building the wind/solar farm.

While the BLM possibly overstepped their bounds on state land, it is unknown (or at least unknown to me) if this is state or federal property. If the feds are charging a grazing "tax" for use of STATE land, then that's one matter. But if the Bundy's do not actually have rights to the land that are grandfathered prior to the BLM stepping in, then that's another matter. There are always 2 sides, and ulterior motives (when concerning the government), to every story. Unfortunately, I highly doubt this will be resolved anytime in the near future...
 

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I don't "know" what is going on with this whole situation, I don't have deep insight into one side or the other. I know that when you spit in the mans eye, you are just as likely as not to find yourself inside a burning building (Branch Davidians and Dorner come to mind).

To me, that is not freedom. And we are supposed to be free, they tell us we are all the time but I just don't see it. I see Patriot Act, NSA spying, people being detained with no trial, dui/immigration/contraband checkpoints, gun bans, un-winnable wars against ideology (the war against terror, the war on drugs, the war on poverty, etc...) that the man himself is responsible starting, I see propaganda like religion, racism, politics, etc dividing people in the media, I could go on, but...

Let's face it, reality is we live in a police state. Or will in the very very near future
 

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Our only response should be weapons of the weak. The economy drives this country and it can halt it as well. If you choke a beast it will fight for you to release it, if you do not the beast dies. It boils down to us needing the government to keep us in line and now they have control, if we weren't so dumb and weak/apathetic in the first place this wouldn't be an issue.

I know I know you aren't the one right, well maybe one on one we are smart and can be reasoned with. As a whole we are a joke at the end of punch lines the world over. We were sold and bought a bit about how making something 15000 miles away and shipping it back was cheaper then making it here....lol. Seems the lobbyists in control of congress making their own rules have won. We buy it all day.

Now we are here...this guy will just get his family wiped from the face of the Earth, he and 1000 people cannot face our government alone, we need to control the money first(our system is built on it), then take it by force.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Yeah the headlines would be everywhere saying angry armed black mobs desend on ranch, death toll quickly rising.

I hate how news channels spin stuff. You get this thought going from this channel then you see it differently on this channel then you hop online and hear it this way, then you get on YouTube and get the video of the people that where there. 4 different stories from 4 different point of views and they all have different agendas. Who and what is fucking right? Who the hell knows. Play the fucking video and shut your god damn mouth let me decide what is going on.
 

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More info I just learned:

Apparently, the Bundy family own watering and grazing rights to the NEVADA land. Back in the 90's though, the BLM bought up all the water and grazing rights, however the Bundy's are saying they never sold their rights. And I don't see how the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT can "tax" STATE OWNED LAND for the preservation of an endangered tortoise that lives there (assuming that is the REAL reason for "taxing" the land). the plot thickens, however due to "big government", I have a bad feeling the Bundy's are going to lose. Nevada owns the land, the Bundy's have (or possibly had) water and grazing rights to the land, BLM is saying they own those rights, Bundy's are saying they never sold their rights......the plot thickens....
 

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I'm calling bullshit on the tortoise thing, the government gives no ducks about "we the people" let alone some stupid turtle in the middle of nowhere. This is about money and or power and has dick to do with conservation. It's about them ruling us, Bundys and all, they tell us what to do, not the other way around. And in the end, they will get their way...
 
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