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Discussion Starter #1
So from my last thread I have dropped a few things off the list with the help from you guys. I have now came to the realization the 500whp is quite a lot for a street car and probably even more money than previously thought. My new power goals would preferably 300 - 350whp but 400 also seems fun and reasonable. After continuous amounts of research and school study hall time, this is my new parts list.

75mm Vitara Pistons
p2p0 Custom Length Rods + ARP Bolts
ACL std. Rod/Main Bearings+Thrust Washer
ARP Headstuds
D16Y8 OEM Headgasket
OEM Oil Pump
T3 T04E Turbo Charger .60 .63 A/R from CXRacing
Cast Iron Manifold from Ilovetacotaco
CXRacing Intercooler and BOV + Piping Kit
TurboSmart 38mm wastegate 14psi
Gram 550cc Injectors
Walbro GSS250 190lph Fuel Pump
Hondata S300 P28 ECU

Now I'm not sure whether I want to Run a Z6 block and head or use a Y8 block and a Z6 head. I would like my compression ratio between 8:5:1 to somewhere in the 9's. Also not sure what wastegate that I should use and if I need to upgrade my turbo manifold for those power levels. Notching will be somewhat of an issue for me but its something that I might have to do since SpeedFactory No Notch Rods are unattainable now. This build is going to be in a 95 EG sedan if that even matters. Any suggestions would be great on parts or the build process, Thanks guys!!!
 

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75mm is only if the bore is good. probably looking at 75.5.
pretty sure the custom length rods come with the arps.
have you thought about running flex fuel? 91 or e85?
 

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To hit 300+WHP with your components listed, you will need larger injectors with that fuel pump. What you have listed will bring you to around 300 HP at the crank, around 260-270 at the wheels with injectors at 90% duty.

You could compensate for the additional required fuel (and staying with the 550's) by raising fuel pressure, but you would need a different fuel pump to support the additional pressure requirements as the GSS220 is designed to operate at stock fuel pressures (43.5 PSI). Also, the volume capability of the GSS220 is best suited for power levels lower than 280-300WHP.

It seems you want the flexibility to reach (at some point) 400WHP (430-440 at the engine). If this is the case, you want to buy injectors and fuel pump that will end up supporting that requirement. For that power level, some 900cc/min+ would be more like it, then you would have lots of wiggle room to tune with. Also consider upping the fuel volume capability by going to a 255lph pump as well, you will need it for your power targets.

If you want to keep stock pressures for your highest power target of 400WHP, you will need the 900 injectors coupled with a higher volume-capable pump, something like a GSS315/317 (OEM pressure pump, at 255lph).

Rule of thumb, you want to be able to reach your HP goals with an injector duty cycle of around 80-85%, no more. Play with this BSFC calculator to determine what injector size you should run based on your fuel pressure and come to a conclusion on your own terms:

https://fuelinjectorclinic.com/hp-calculator

With those rods, you will definitely need to notch the block. The rod bolts "should" clear the girdle. Mine were stupid close visually, but there was enough clearance when measuring even factoring in thermal expansion.

I'm glad you're not cheaping out with engine management, and using a Hondata/Neptune type system. Having the ability to control your setup is key to being able to keep it running at it's best. That being said, you MUST couple this with a good fuel system (pump and injectors) to support your power levels.

With what you have, plus my recommendations, you will be able to play around in the 350WHP range all day. Consider beefier axles after you break your first set of stock ones. Stock ones are not happy at that power level!
 

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Discussion Starter #4
75mm is only if the bore is good. probably looking at 75.5.
pretty sure the custom length rods come with the arps.
have you thought about running flex fuel? 91 or e85?
92 is the highest in my area. But I figure if I do E85 then I would need at least 1000cc injectors right?
 

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Discussion Starter #5
To hit 300+WHP with your components listed, you will need larger injectors with that fuel pump. What you have listed will bring you to around 300 HP at the crank, around 260-270 at the wheels with injectors at 90% duty.

You could compensate for the additional required fuel (and staying with the 550's) by raising fuel pressure, but you would need a different fuel pump to support the additional pressure requirements as the GSS220 is designed to operate at stock fuel pressures (43.5 PSI). Also, the volume capability of the GSS220 is best suited for power levels lower than 280-300WHP.

It seems you want the flexibility to reach (at some point) 400WHP (430-440 at the engine). If this is the case, you want to buy injectors and fuel pump that will end up supporting that requirement. For that power level, some 900cc/min+ would be more like it, then you would have lots of wiggle room to tune with. Also consider upping the fuel volume capability by going to a 255lph pump as well, you will need it for your power targets.

If you want to keep stock pressures for your highest power target of 400WHP, you will need the 900 injectors coupled with a higher volume-capable pump, something like a GSS315/317 (OEM pressure pump, at 255lph).

Rule of thumb, you want to be able to reach your HP goals with an injector duty cycle of around 80-85%, no more. Play with this BSFC calculator to determine what injector size you should run based on your fuel pressure and come to a conclusion on your own terms:

https://fuelinjectorclinic.com/hp-calculator

With those rods, you will definitely need to notch the block. The rod bolts "should" clear the girdle. Mine were stupid close visually, but there was enough clearance when measuring even factoring in thermal expansion.

I'm glad you're not cheaping out with engine management, and using a Hondata/Neptune type system. Having the ability to control your setup is key to being able to keep it running at it's best. That being said, you MUST couple this with a good fuel system (pump and injectors) to support your power levels.

With what you have, plus my recommendations, you will be able to play around in the 350WHP range all day. Consider beefier axles after you break your first set of stock ones. Stock ones are not happy at that power level!
I personally would like to be in the upper 300's for horsepower. I was reading on multiple forums that people have used what I have mentioned and achieved similar power goals but of course with a good tune. Should I just upgrade to 1000cc's so the E85 option is on the table? I was also reading about the GSS342 and somebody said you have to do some modification to use it instead if the GSS250.
 

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If your planning on E85 sometime in the future, definitely go for the 1000's, if not more. You will need the fuel flow! E85 contains less heat energy per gallon than a gasoline gallon equivalent, so you need to flow more E85 in order to make the same type of power. The benefit of E85's characteristics outweigh the costs of burning more of it, from a tuner's perspective anyways :)

The GSS250 is a little bit better volume-capable pump vs. the stock fuel pump, and it's designed for stock fuel pressures/amperage requirements. It's not the highest volume pump out there. For your needs, having the capability of 255lph instead of 190lph ESPECIALLY with E85 on the table somewhere in the future is definitely something you should consider upgrading.

You are also correct, the GSS342 is "the" Walbro "255" pump that most folks know it as. It is a high volume/pressure pump, capable of 200lph at like 60-70 PSI. The current requirements of this pump go up with the higher pressures, which is also another type of modification consideration as you may need heavier gauge wires to feed the pump. It is a drop-in tank pump. As long as you don't modify fuel pressures, this pump should be drop in to use with no wiring modifications.

I would recommend an aftermarket fuel pressure regulator to accompany this pump, as it is capable of overwhelming the stock fuel pressure regulator with the volume it can move. Something like the AEM bolt-on-rail regulator will do well ($150+ for this unit).
 

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Discussion Starter #7
If your planning on E85 sometime in the future, definitely go for the 1000's, if not more. You will need the fuel flow! E85 contains less heat energy per gallon than a gasoline gallon equivalent, so you need to flow more E85 in order to make the same type of power. The benefit of E85's characteristics outweigh the costs of burning more of it, from a tuner's perspective anyways :)

The GSS250 is a little bit better volume-capable pump vs. the stock fuel pump, and it's designed for stock fuel pressures/amperage requirements. It's not the highest volume pump out there. For your needs, having the capability of 255lph instead of 190lph ESPECIALLY with E85 on the table somewhere in the future is definitely something you should consider upgrading.

You are also correct, the GSS342 is "the" Walbro "255" pump that most folks know it as. It is a high volume/pressure pump, capable of 200lph at like 60-70 PSI. The current requirements of this pump go up with the higher pressures, which is also another type of modification consideration as you may need heavier gauge wires to feed the pump. It is a drop-in tank pump. As long as you don't modify fuel pressures, this pump should be drop in to use with no wiring modifications.

I would recommend an aftermarket fuel pressure regulator to accompany this pump, as it is capable of overwhelming the stock fuel pressure regulator with the volume it can move. Something like the AEM bolt-on-rail regulator will do well ($150+ for this unit).
So is there anything on my list that I'm missing or that I will need? And is this the Fuel pressure Regulator you were talking about https://www.ebay.com/itm/AEM-25-300BK-Fuel-pressure-regulator-Civic-bolt-on/153112871522 Also are the ACL standard Bearings I chose fine for my application and would they just be plug and play or is there something with the clearances I need to worry about? I was playing with that HP Calculator you sent me and I've decided to go with some Bosch 850cc injectors here's the link https://www.ebay.com/itm/Honda-Acura-BOSCH-850cc-EV14-Fuel-Injectors-OBD2-B-D-H-F-Series-Civic-Integra-ek/202483259456 I have a concern, well authenticity plus they're super cheap compared to other brands not sure if Bosch prices are lower or not.
 

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That is the regulator I was talking about, great little unit.

It's hard to buy bearings without measuring first. Unless you know you are going to get the crankshaft cut down for installing oversized bearings, knowing that everything will be cut to a common specification, it's best not to buy bearings until you measure everything first.

I've heard and seen it many ways. Some guys take the chance and not measure anything then slap in a set of STD bearings and the engine lasts for years. The other side of this method is guys slapping them in, and the crankshaft eating itself in a few weeks. It's a 50/50 shot if you buy them now and don't measure.

The best way to do it is to take everything apart and measure first, buy what you need according to your service limits, then installing and plastigaging everything to make sure your bearings fit the bill according to your measurements.

I've seen guys needing to buy 2-3 sets of main/rod bearings until they find pairs of shells that work around specific journals. I've personally been lucky to not have had to do this yet. Whether installing STD or oversized bearings, every bearing set I've ever bought for any engine I've ever built, I lube parts lightly, torque components to set initial bearing crush, take apart, place plastigage, torque again, disassemble and measure, and all oil clearances have been within service limits. (Just lucky I guess!) There is always one or two journals close to being out of spec, but they always seem to fall within spec so I've never needed to buy multiple bearing sets to assure oil clearances. I can't say if you will have the same luck or not, but just a heads up!!

Good deal on getting larger injectors. 850's should do you well for your 400WHP target, on gasoline anyways :) You should only need the GSS342 pump then (stock pressure @ 255lph) with those injectors and regulator combo to hit your target. You are correct to seem "concerned" with the authenticity of those injectors. Most people that sell brand name injectors display the s*** out of the OEM logo's in pictures, keeping them front and center so customer's know they are getting what's in the picture. The post you show seems to barely show any glimpse of a part number/brand name at all. Hopefully you choose well! I try to pick things that lots of others have bought, as there is usually reviews of some type to accompany the component.

Good news again with that regulator and pump, is that if you do decide you need more fuel volume for whatever reason (say when getting tuned on E85), you can up the system pressure incrementally at the dyno to match A/F targets if you are falling slightly short. Honestly, for 400WHP on E85, you should be looking at getting 1000's, but if you stay with high octane pump gas you will hit your WHP target with the 850's
 

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Discussion Starter #9
That is the regulator I was talking about, great little unit.

It's hard to buy bearings without measuring first. Unless you know you are going to get the crankshaft cut down for installing oversized bearings, knowing that everything will be cut to a common specification, it's best not to buy bearings until you measure everything first.

I've heard and seen it many ways. Some guys take the chance and not measure anything then slap in a set of STD bearings and the engine lasts for years. The other side of this method is guys slapping them in, and the crankshaft eating itself in a few weeks. It's a 50/50 shot if you buy them now and don't measure.

The best way to do it is to take everything apart and measure first, buy what you need according to your service limits, then installing and plastigaging everything to make sure your bearings fit the bill according to your measurements.

I've seen guys needing to buy 2-3 sets of main/rod bearings until they find pairs of shells that work around specific journals. I've personally been lucky to not have had to do this yet. Whether installing STD or oversized bearings, every bearing set I've ever bought for any engine I've ever built, I lube parts lightly, torque components to set initial bearing crush, take apart, place plastigage, torque again, disassemble and measure, and all oil clearances have been within service limits. (Just lucky I guess!) There is always one or two journals close to being out of spec, but they always seem to fall within spec so I've never needed to buy multiple bearing sets to assure oil clearances. I can't say if you will have the same luck or not, but just a heads up!!

Good deal on getting larger injectors. 850's should do you well for your 400WHP target, on gasoline anyways :) You should only need the GSS342 pump then (stock pressure @ 255lph) with those injectors and regulator combo to hit your target. You are correct to seem "concerned" with the authenticity of those injectors. Most people that sell brand name injectors display the s*** out of the OEM logo's in pictures, keeping them front and center so customer's know they are getting what's in the picture. The post you show seems to barely show any glimpse of a part number/brand name at all. Hopefully you choose well! I try to pick things that lots of others have bought, as there is usually reviews of some type to accompany the component.

Good news again with that regulator and pump, is that if you do decide you need more fuel volume for whatever reason (say when getting tuned on E85), you can up the system pressure incrementally at the dyno to match A/F targets if you are falling slightly short. Honestly, for 400WHP on E85, you should be looking at getting 1000's, but if you stay with high octane pump gas you will hit your WHP target with the 850's
Great thanks man for the input really appreciate it!!! Do you suggest I tinker with anything transmission related? my thoughts is probably clutch and if so do you have any suggestions for those? and how about my turbo https://www.ebay.com/itm/CXRacing-Universal-T3-T04E-Turbo-Charger-60-63-A-R-For-Jdm-Civic-VW-Golf/290516194916 I hear Cast Iron manifolds is the way to go for cheap applications https://www.ebay.com/itm/Civic-Crx-Del-Sol-D15-D16-T3-T4-Turbo-Centered-38Mm-Wg-Flange-Cast-Iron-Manifold/231890672068 I'm not sure if my wastegate isenough but then again I'm not sure how much psi I'm going to run anyways. should I buy the maximum the turbo can handle?
 

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The clutch:

For 350-400WHP, you definitely want something up there in the higher "stages". I hate the term "stage", as this can mean many different things between different parts manufacturers. When talking about clutches, Stage 2 could mean something completely different between Exedy vs SPEC for example. They will be close, but meaning the same thing. Here is a rule of thumb chart when talking about single disc clutch set stages:

Lb/Ft of Torque, measured at the flywheel (estimate only)

Stage 1 - 200
Stage 2 - 225 to 240
Stage 3 - 245 to 270
Stage 4 - 275 to 350
Stage 5 - 400+ (becomes more or less custom after this, breaking into multi-disc clutch territory)

The important thing to note when buying a clutch kit (for higher torque/hp cars) more than anything is the rated clamp load of the pressure plate. This is usually expressed in Pounds (Lbs) of theoretical weight pressing down on the clutch disc (cause it's not really weight, it's spring force). The more pressure (clamp load) you have available to push against the clutch disc, the less prone it is to slipping under power.

There are other factors that come into play when talking about slippage, such as the disc design (example, full circle vs puck styles) and the friction material used. Usually the higher you go up in stages, the grippier the friction material and the heavier the pressure plate.

Another thing too, with the heavier pressure plates you will potentially wear out your crankshaft thrust washers quickly (the one that takes the brunt of the "push in" from the clutch fork actuation is what gets ruined first). I've heard of guys running Stage 4 clutches in DD vehicles and that washer giving up within one year. Those washers(bearings) are not pressure fed with oil, they are only drip coated AND most of the time you are using the clutch at lower engine speeds meaning less oil is pouring over that washer.

Remember, Honda's were never really designed to see high HP/TQ, so the thrust washers available for our engines are not typically expecting 2000+ lbs pressure plates lol.

If you need higher than a Stage 3 clutch, thrust washer inspection/replacement at much higher than normal intervals is recommended to keep the crankshaft end play happy. For 350WHP, a Stage 3 setup from where ever you decide should do you well.



The transmission:

LSD and new synchros? Final drive and gear sets? Not necessary for a street car, but they only add to the fun if the budget can take it!

If you ever want to be competitive, these are almost requirements beyond a certain point!

Change the fluid and all external seals while everything is out. If you really want to be a champ to your transmission, replace all of the shaft and differential bearings for the assault of more torque (might as well do synchros too if the case is open). Our Honda transmissions are honestly incredible little devices, being known to take unreal amounts of abuse and power input and still keep going at levels way beyond what was ever meant for them.



The exhaust manifold:

Cast iron FTW! You can't beat the price, and they will take tons of abuse. They are much stronger overall vs cheap tubular manifolds. Cracking is unlikely. Until you can afford to buy a REALLY nice manifold, I suggest staying away from the eBay special tubular style manifolds. There may be others on here that have had success with them, I'm not sure. I've just had friends that have had to have the collector point rewelded so many times due to cracking. It is probably more related to inferior welding than the material. In the exhaust manifold/header world, you do get what you pay for.



The Wastegate:

You're smart getting a brand name wastegate. Turbosmart or a Tial are good quality units. The good thing with these units is you can reliably buy different spring pressures for them from their manufacturer. You "can" get eBay special springs for eBay special wastegates, but I like knowing my boost control devices were crafted by the hands of a reputable company.

There are places where corners can be cut, but boost control is something I don't usually like to leave to chance.

Don't buy the "maximum" wastegate spring the turbo can handle. For your power levels, keep the 14 PSI spring and buy a cheap vacuum line style boost controller. Ultimately, your wastegate spring pressure is going to be the "fallback" pressure for your turbo system, the lowest you would ever like to see.

Unfortunately, you have no idea exactly how much power your engine is going to make on 14PSI. It could make 220WHP, it could make 280WHP. There are too many variables to pin boost pressure to exact power output. Don't shoot for a "boost" level, tune engine for a "power" level. Boost will increase as your power needs do. If you need more power, turn the boost up some more. You will stop when the dyno tells you that you are at your desired power level, this could be 15PSI or 25PSI, you won't know until you dyno.

I would buy a 7PSI spring to accompany the 14PSI spring. For tuning purposes, put the 7PSI spring in the wastegate and do a dyno pull. Figure out what power level you are at with the 7PSI spring. If you need more, install the boost controller to the wastegate. The tuner will adjust the boost controller to increase the boost pressure. If you exceed 14PSI and you are still not at your desired power level, you can stop and install the 14PSI spring and reconnect the boost controller and start over. Keep doing pulls and upping boost as needed until you hit your power level. It's that simple! (not lol)



The turbo:

The eBay special turbos have been available for almost 20 years now! During that time, the initial offerings were dirt cheap and inferior clones of similar Garrett units. Almost 20 years have gone by and the Chinese manufacturing process, materials and QA for these turbos is getting really damn good. They are almost exact clones of one of the simplest turbo designs of all time, and have minimal moving parts.

As I'm sure you know, folks out there have stress tested the s*** out of many different types of Chinese turbos only to have them last for years under constant abuse. The other side of things is every once in a while you will get a bad one that self destructs, but it is becoming more and more rare to have happen. You should be fine with that turbo for getting into the 300+WHP segment, with decent spool times.


Hopefully this answers your questions.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
The clutch:

For 350-400WHP, you definitely want something up there in the higher "stages". I hate the term "stage", as this can mean many different things between different parts manufacturers. When talking about clutches, Stage 2 could mean something completely different between Exedy vs SPEC for example. They will be close, but meaning the same thing. Here is a rule of thumb chart when talking about single disc clutch set stages:

Lb/Ft of Torque, measured at the flywheel (estimate only)

Stage 1 - 200
Stage 2 - 225 to 240
Stage 3 - 245 to 270
Stage 4 - 275 to 350
Stage 5 - 400+ (becomes more or less custom after this, breaking into multi-disc clutch territory)

The important thing to note when buying a clutch kit (for higher torque/hp cars) more than anything is the rated clamp load of the pressure plate. This is usually expressed in Pounds (Lbs) of theoretical weight pressing down on the clutch disc (cause it's not really weight, it's spring force). The more pressure (clamp load) you have available to push against the clutch disc, the less prone it is to slipping under power.

There are other factors that come into play when talking about slippage, such as the disc design (example, full circle vs puck styles) and the friction material used. Usually the higher you go up in stages, the grippier the friction material and the heavier the pressure plate.

Another thing too, with the heavier pressure plates you will potentially wear out your crankshaft thrust washers quickly (the one that takes the brunt of the "push in" from the clutch fork actuation is what gets ruined first). I've heard of guys running Stage 4 clutches in DD vehicles and that washer giving up within one year. Those washers(bearings) are not pressure fed with oil, they are only drip coated AND most of the time you are using the clutch at lower engine speeds meaning less oil is pouring over that washer.

Remember, Honda's were never really designed to see high HP/TQ, so the thrust washers available for our engines are not typically expecting 2000+ lbs pressure plates lol.

If you need higher than a Stage 3 clutch, thrust washer inspection/replacement at much higher than normal intervals is recommended to keep the crankshaft end play happy. For 350WHP, a Stage 3 setup from where ever you decide should do you well.



The transmission:

LSD and new synchros? Final drive and gear sets? Not necessary for a street car, but they only add to the fun if the budget can take it!

If you ever want to be competitive, these are almost requirements beyond a certain point!

Change the fluid and all external seals while everything is out. If you really want to be a champ to your transmission, replace all of the shaft and differential bearings for the assault of more torque (might as well do synchros too if the case is open). Our Honda transmissions are honestly incredible little devices, being known to take unreal amounts of abuse and power input and still keep going at levels way beyond what was ever meant for them.



The exhaust manifold:

Cast iron FTW! You can't beat the price, and they will take tons of abuse. They are much stronger overall vs cheap tubular manifolds. Cracking is unlikely. Until you can afford to buy a REALLY nice manifold, I suggest staying away from the eBay special tubular style manifolds. There may be others on here that have had success with them, I'm not sure. I've just had friends that have had to have the collector point rewelded so many times due to cracking. It is probably more related to inferior welding than the material. In the exhaust manifold/header world, you do get what you pay for.



The Wastegate:

You're smart getting a brand name wastegate. Turbosmart or a Tial are good quality units. The good thing with these units is you can reliably buy different spring pressures for them from their manufacturer. You "can" get eBay special springs for eBay special wastegates, but I like knowing my boost control devices were crafted by the hands of a reputable company.

There are places where corners can be cut, but boost control is something I don't usually like to leave to chance.

Don't buy the "maximum" wastegate spring the turbo can handle. For your power levels, keep the 14 PSI spring and buy a cheap vacuum line style boost controller. Ultimately, your wastegate spring pressure is going to be the "fallback" pressure for your turbo system, the lowest you would ever like to see.

Unfortunately, you have no idea exactly how much power your engine is going to make on 14PSI. It could make 220WHP, it could make 280WHP. There are too many variables to pin boost pressure to exact power output. Don't shoot for a "boost" level, tune engine for a "power" level. Boost will increase as your power needs do. If you need more power, turn the boost up some more. You will stop when the dyno tells you that you are at your desired power level, this could be 15PSI or 25PSI, you won't know until you dyno.

I would buy a 7PSI spring to accompany the 14PSI spring. For tuning purposes, put the 7PSI spring in the wastegate and do a dyno pull. Figure out what power level you are at with the 7PSI spring. If you need more, install the boost controller to the wastegate. The tuner will adjust the boost controller to increase the boost pressure. If you exceed 14PSI and you are still not at your desired power level, you can stop and install the 14PSI spring and reconnect the boost controller and start over. Keep doing pulls and upping boost as needed until you hit your power level. It's that simple! (not lol)



The turbo:

The eBay special turbos have been available for almost 20 years now! During that time, the initial offerings were dirt cheap and inferior clones of similar Garrett units. Almost 20 years have gone by and the Chinese manufacturing process, materials and QA for these turbos is getting really damn good. They are almost exact clones of one of the simplest turbo designs of all time, and have minimal moving parts.

As I'm sure you know, folks out there have stress tested the s*** out of many different types of Chinese turbos only to have them last for years under constant abuse. The other side of things is every once in a while you will get a bad one that self destructs, but it is becoming more and more rare to have happen. You should be fine with that turbo for getting into the 300+WHP segment, with decent spool times.


Hopefully this answers your questions.
OMG!!! I cant thank you enough for helping me out with this build, It really means a lot to me SERIOUSLY!!. All of your suggestions and recommendations have been super helpful in getting me to where I would like to be in the future build. Thanks for taking the time out of your day to answer my questions and give me suggestions. Not only that but I've learned a lot just from us talking which is also very important. Now I can have a fun daily!!!, next step is to convince my dad that making cars fast is okay and somewhat practical especially here in MN. Which will be hard. Once again thanks for helping me out and keep doing what your doing...
 

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Lol, it's no problem. I usually like to take an hour or so after work to work in the garage and unwind, this falls into that time!

The forums are good because I get to pass on things I've learned/seen as well as learn from others. I love to see the solutions and creativity that others put into solving problems and issues on their cars/hobbies.

Good luck with the Dad thing, maybe your dad is into cars/motorsports and understands and be willing to help out! Unless it was bare basics, I was always on my own. I definitely didn't get the "car on my 16th birthday" type of treatment haha. I have always had no choice but to work like crazy for my retarded expensive hobbies. I swear, I don't understand why I can't have affordable f****** hobbies haha! Everything I'm interested in has either electronics, computers or an engine strapped to it lol. I'm sure lots of people here can relate!

It will be different for my son/daughter, I'm way too into motorsports to let him/her NOT get into it if I find out they're interested in cars later on in life lol! College fund? What college fund? You mean go-fast parts?! That's what I'm talking about haha.
 

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Lol, it's no problem. I usually like to take an hour or so after work to work in the garage and unwind, this falls into that time!

The forums are good because I get to pass on things I've learned/seen as well as learn from others. I love to see the solutions and creativity that others put into solving problems and issues on their cars/hobbies.

Good luck with the Dad thing, maybe your dad is into cars/motorsports and understands and be willing to help out! Unless it was bare basics, I was always on my own. I definitely didn't get the "car on my 16th birthday" type of treatment haha. I have always had no choice but to work like crazy for my retarded expensive hobbies. I swear, I don't understand why I can't have affordable f****** hobbies haha! Everything I'm interested in has either electronics, computers or an engine strapped to it lol. I'm sure lots of people here can relate!

It will be different for my son/daughter, I'm way too into motorsports to let him/her NOT get into it if I find out they're interested in cars later on in life lol! College fund? What college fund? You mean go-fast parts?! That's what I'm talking about haha.
Gotemm, see that's the thing I don't have enough money to support this hobby either. my dad is always like there is no need to go fast or buy a super car in MN there is no where to go fast. he doesn't understand what a spirited drive or the point of enjoying drive and having a fun quick car to do that. Parents will never understand and when I try and explain something he just still thinks there is no need to have something fun because a car is supposed to get you fro point A to B and the car I currently drive does that but isn't fun . an NA 2.4 PT Cruiser Limited Edition.... YIPPEEE
 
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