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Best engine for Cali smog in a EJ6?

  • stock D16Y7

    Votes: 6 24.0%
  • F23

    Votes: 3 12.0%
  • B18/20

    Votes: 5 20.0%
  • K20/24

    Votes: 11 44.0%

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    25
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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I have a modified D16Y7 in my 96 EJ6 hatch, and I was planning a new bottom end for turbo. Due to a recent change in circumstances, I need to move back to California, so I will need to smog. There's no way I will be able to smog my Y7 now without going back to stock, which will be a lot of work/expense, and I'll have a slow car again.

Assuming a swap can be smogged, what would be the best swap for me? I was thinking of a F23 (OBD2), since it would be nice and torquey and easily turboed later on a stock bottom end, making it relatively cheap. I could use a stock F23 ECU when I need to smog, then swap the ECU later (I already have a OBD2A plugged AEM EMS).

Or is B or K the best way to go?

What kind of swaps are allowed for California?
 

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I think the swap rule here in cali is that the motor has to be newer and has to harness all stock smog stuff.. Other than that i dont think its too bad.

So anything newer than your D and you should be able to smog.

Oh, and i'd say if you can afford it, go K!

But if your looking for turbo maybe the F is better.. But its not going to be fun trying to smog the F with a turbo.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Well, the plan would be to smog without turbo. With an F I could easily swap the injectors, turbo, manifold, charge piping myself. I could do that with the D16 as well, but it is just too slow in stock form!!

The F is being heavily considered only because I can consider keeping my D transmission, which I've already invested in (Quaife LSD). A K swap adds the extra expense of a trans, shifter and mount kit. The F just means a Bisi F2D kit, and a driver side engine mount.

I read somewhere that the engine has to be from the same class of vehicle, is that true? If so, would this just be car -> car, or does it need to be compact -> compact?

Any suggestions for a good shop with knowledge of swaps and Cali smog or even a smog referee contact would be great.
 

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I read somewhere that the engine has to be from the same class of vehicle, is that true? If so, would this just be car -> car, or does it need to be compact -> compact?
BAR engine swap regulations web site said:
Overview
Engine changes continue to present problems and challenges to car owners and technicians. Here are some tips to keep you and your customers on the straight and narrow.

Our recommendation is to rebuild and reinstall the original engine, transmission, and emission control configuration.

When rebuilding an engine, it must be rebuilt to the original equipment specifications. However, if you do decide to change the engine, these guidelines must be observed to ensure that the vehicle will be eligible for smog certification or registration.

Remember, these are guidelines for performing engine changes -- not certification procedures. All exhaust emission controlled vehicles with engine changes must be inspected by an official referee station and must have a Bureau of Automotive Repair (BAR) Vehicle Identification Label affixed to the doorpost.

Remember also, state and federal anti-tampering laws generally prohibit any modification to the vehicle's original emission control system configuration as certified by the manufacturer. And, Section 3362.1 of the California Code of Regulations prohibits any engine change that degrades the effectiveness of a vehicle's emission control system.

California Certification
A federal Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) certified (federal or 49-state) engine cannot be used in a vehicle that was originally certified for California.


Certification Standards
Make sure the engine and emission control configuration on exhaust - controlled vehicles are certified to the year of the vehicle or newer, and to the same or a more stringent new vehicle certification standard.

Classification
Don't mix engine and vehicle classifications which will degrade the emissions certification standards. For example, a heavy-duty engine cannot be installed in a light-duty exhaust-controlled chassis even if they have the same displacement. Non-emissions controlled power plants such as industrial or off-road-use-only engines may not be placed in any exhaust-controlled vehicle.


Computer Controls
If a computer-controlled engine is installed in a non-computerized vehicle, the "CHECK ENGINE" light, the Original Equipment Manufacturer (OEM) diagnostic link, and all sensors, switches, and wiring harnesses needed to make the system fully functional must also be installed.

Emission Control Configuration
Mixing and matching emission control system components could cause problems and is generally not allowed. Engine and emission control systems must be in an engine-chassis configuration certified by the California Air Resources Board (ARB) or U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA). The engine must meet or exceed the requirements for the year and class of vehicle in which it is installed.


Emission Warranty
Voiding the vehicle manufacturer's emission warranty is not allowed.

Engine Modifications
No internal or external engine modifications (cams, pistons, intakes, etc.) may be performed unless the parts are ARB-exempted or EPA-certified for use in the installed engine. Use the database on this site to search for aftermarket parts covered by ARB Executive Orders.

Original Equipment
The installed engine and host chassis must retain all of their original emission control equipment. Diesel-to-gasoline conversions must have all gasoline engine and chassis emission control systems installed (such as fillpipe restrictor, catalytic converter and evaporative emission system).

Smog Inspection
These vehicles must pass a complete smog inspection (visual, functional, and tailpipe).
when i said that the f23 might not fall under an engine they would let slide in a civic. i was refering to the statement above about classification and emmisssion control configuration. onyl a ref will know for sure if it will fly. but remember you also have to use the obd2 ecu. and good luck with the engine mount. getto fab mount will not work. so you will have to call up hasport (or another place that makes mounts) and have them actually make a "stock" looking mount. you will also need to check with the ref about the use of an adapter plate. i am not sure if they would let that "fly" also.

although d16y7 doesn't have a lev status (iirc), but all the ca f23 engines do. some of the versions also have the ulev standard. just food for thought.

btw: the california certification part was not a big thing back in 00-~04. but now with the new dyno sh!t at the smog places, it is. refs were not really intrested on were you got it, as long as the engine serial number was clean.
 

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When i went to the ref this summer the guy told me it didnt matter if you had a B D or K just as long as it was hooked up correctly and any after market parts had CARB stickers(visual inspection). They will run the OBD2 diagnostics on it thru that port on the Drivers side and if it passes the sniffer on the dyno you are good to go.

Engine wise its up to you what you want in there

To make absolutely sure call a ref. The guy i had was cool as fuck, he gave me a piece of pipe to run from the valve cover breather hole to the intake hose right before the TB. Its illegal in cali to use rubber hose thats not insulated.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
and good luck with the engine mount. getto fab mount will not work. so you will have to call up hasport (or another place that makes mounts) and have them actually make a "stock" looking mount.
Really? You can't run performance engine mounts in California? Does the transmission really matter? I would have thought only emission and fuel related items would be controlled...
 

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Really? Where have you seen weights for all the Honda engines? I've looked and I can't find that info... Links please!
try H-T there is a thread comparing weights. can't remember which ones they weighed though.
Really? You can't run performance engine mounts in California? Does the transmission really matter? I would have thought only emission and fuel related items would be controlled...
no, you can run performance mounts. but as far as i have seen the f/h2d require a "custom" drivers side mount to be made. i have not seen anyone use just a driver side mount from a kit yet or even were to get just the one mount. bense did the swap and he has a FAQ on H-T on the f/h2d swap, which is were i got the info about the custom mount. along with all the other that have tried the swap, think there are like five others. all with the same issue. hasport/bisi only has the EF chassis drivers side made currently.

the swap has to be approved by BAR. if the swap is not done correctly or just plain looks unsafe they will not certify the swap. there ae two parts to a swap. the BAR and the smog. you must pass both to be able to register the car for use in CA.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Thanks a lot for your help!!

Anyone know of a good shop in the SF Bay area that can do this swap and smog?
 

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redzone


redzoneperformance.com

rcrew.com







As a local cali resident, here is what I know.


You need to retain all the stock emission controls from the new engine onto your car. This means EVAP, Purge, EGR (being an F or H) and original USDM ECU. The easiest to make smog legal is indeed a B16A3 (99 Civic Si) or a B18C5 (ITR yeards newer than yours)

B20 will downright be illegal as it is from a small SUV and not considered a car.

That being said, the F is problematic as there is the EGR system which none of the civics have.

The K, requires the fuel tank from the RSX as it has a new fuel system that is integrated into the fuel tank. There is a smog legal EG with a K series but he is running the dash as well as the fuel tank from the RSX.




as far as passing smog, there is a BAR certification that requires paperwork for the engine as well as making sure it passes the smog test. There wil be a sticker stating what engine is in the car so you do not get hassled by cops for an illegal swap in the car.






Honestly, the B series will be the least problematic if you are looking for getting the car legally swapped. Alot of these cars out here in Cali do not have smog legal swaps and probably swap out their engines when smog comes along.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Is EGR really a problem? Isn't the entire EGR system included in the engine (head and intake manifold)? I can always block it off later if I choose to boost.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Here's a spreadsheet I've created to hopefully capture most of the costs (labor not included). Please feel free to comment if I left anything off the list. I didn't include the B yet...
 

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smogable as long as you keep it obd2, must have all sensors in, and in working order. all aftermarket parts must be carb rated. turbo kits made by greddy or edelbrock are the only ones i know of that are legal. then you have too have the state ref inspect it or you can find a guy to hook you up at a test only smog station.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Yep, I'd be smogging just the stock NA engine. Once it passes, I'll go turbo and uninstall everything in another 2 years, next time I have to smog...

I'm looking to swap only because the base engine could so much better even without turbo, and besides, it's an excuse to upgrade!
 

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they only do 500 inspections a year so act fast or spend the next year without. i got mine passed through other means which we won't speak of. which a lot of people do as an alternative who in the hell wants to swap motors back ,and forth every other year. honestly i think the emmisions meet requirements, but the visual insspection is the problem
 
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