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Formerly weebeastie
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Discussion Starter #1
I understand the theory of meth/water injection and why it works in a forced induction application. I understand that it allows you to run leaner and add timing without the fear of detonation, and it cools the intake charge.
Why do kits cost $300? Meth/Water is simply winter type washer fluid that is injected into the intake. What psi has to be maintained to be safe? Why could I not just run the wiper/washer resivoir hose (through a pressure regulator) to the intake manifold. I'm not going to constantly run it, but factory washer electric motors put out a decent amount of pressure and are readily and cheaply available.

I know I sound like I'm a freakin cheap, but I'm the general manager of a salvage yard and have access to hundreds of washer jugs and pumps. Anybody know anything about meth/water injection psi?
 

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R2.....Zap Balls
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It's sprayed through a nozzle that turns it into a fine mist. You'd need to know what size nozzle to make it atomize properly.
 

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Formerly weebeastie
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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks for the info

That is a great start. I think Snow and Coolmist actually rate their pumps online, but I wonder if I could just buy a replacement nozzle from one of those guys and make my own kit. I just can't see spending so much for the kit. Thanks for the info, that is definitely a great start and once I get all the info together maybe I'll put together a DIY for meth/water injection.
 

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my dd has 1800 ftlbs of torque
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i was wondering this also why would you inject water into your engine?
 

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R2.....Zap Balls
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i was wondering this also why would you inject water into your engine?
Like stated above. it's a water/methanol mix. It's a fine mist that cools the intake charge to help with detonation. It's such a fine mist, it evaporates when it hits the hot intake charge and causing it to cool.
 

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my dd has 1800 ftlbs of torque
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3,890 Posts
Like stated above. it's a water/methanol mix. It's a fine mist that cools the intake charge to help with detonation. It's such a fine mist, it evaporates when it hits the hot intake charge and causing it to cool.
thank you, but wouldnt it raise compression?
 

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insert user title here
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thank you, but wouldnt it raise compression?
why would it raise compression?

all it does is cool intake charge to prevent detonation.
properly sized injectors does the same thing for the same price.
i think water alcohol kits are nice, but too much to go wrong.

better injectors means less to go wrong and less hassle.
 

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Formerly weebeastie
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903 Posts
Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
How would it raise compression?

The water cools the intake charge then evaporates and the methanol is burned up as extra "fuel". How would compression increase?

And for the other poster, Meth/water injection is a proven power adder on any setup. Especially when larger injectors are used. Larger injectors do not cool the intake charge like water/meth injection. I see it as free horspower.
 

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like stated, you'd have to find the perfect nozzle for the set-up and because non-progressive kits are so hard to tune(you can have too much alky), they came out with progressive kits, which i believe is why they're so expensive. the progressive kits run off your map sensor so that it knows when you're under boost and when to turn on/off.
 

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insert user title here
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The water cools the intake charge then evaporates and the methanol is burned up as extra "fuel". How would compression increase?

And for the other poster, Meth/water injection is a proven power adder on any setup. Especially when larger injectors are used. Larger injectors do not cool the intake charge like water/meth injection. I see it as free horspower.
only if youre hitting the knock limit on pump gas. then you have to ask youself if its worth over 350 hp. in some cases, yes. but race gas does the same thing.
 

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Formerly weebeastie
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903 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
I understand what you're saying

But for my application this will definitely be used with an on/off button and not sensitive to boost or injector pulse.

My d16a6 is carb'd (custom intake with Holley 245 cfm) and will have a 50-75 wet shot of nitrous. The kicker is that the engine has about 12.5:1 compression so the meth/water injection would be there to control detonation and catastrophic meltdown.
 

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But for my application this will definitely be used with an on/off button and not sensitive to boost or injector pulse.

My d16a6 is carb'd (custom intake with Holley 245 cfm) and will have a 50-75 wet shot of nitrous. The kicker is that the engine has about 12.5:1 compression so the meth/water injection would be there to control detonation and catastrophic meltdown.

are you saying you'd manually turn it on and off whenever you sensed knock? there's quite a bit of travel the alky has to make before it finally enters your combustion chambers so i'm not sure i'd wanna take that risk. and it sounds like you'd have no real way to tell how much you're injecting.
 

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Formerly weebeastie
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903 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
We're assuming too much, but I haven't fully divulged either

This system would not be for street use unless a planned race is gonna happen. This would be a straight track setup for the 1/4 mile. That way it can be turned on and used only when the nitrous is planned to be used. Timing and jetting would be changed before the nitrous/meth/water system was engaged.


Recap on engine:


d16a6 bored .020"
p29 pistons
milled head .040"
Bisimoto level 2 camshaft/springs
4-1 header
 

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This system would not be for street use unless a planned race is gonna happen. This would be a straight track setup for the 1/4 mile. That way it can be turned on and used only when the nitrous is planned to be used. Timing and jetting would be changed before the nitrous/meth/water system was engaged.

sounds like a good idea, but if you're going through all that trouble just to use it at the track... why not just use race gas? the meth injection is more for preventing detonation, than it is to cool your intake temps down to get more horsepower...


regardless, good luck and let us know how it turns out:TU:
 

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MuthaFuckaUppa
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sounds like a good idea, but if you're going through all that trouble just to use it at the track... why not just use race gas? the meth injection is more for preventing detonation, than it is to cool your intake temps down to get more horsepower...


regardless, good luck and let us know how it turns out:TU:
using methanol injection with nitrous, or boost allows you to retain your timing, meaning more horsepower. when under boost or nitrous you would normally retard the timing, add methanol at 114 oct. and you dont have to retard your timing as much. and you also get a colder, more dense air in your cylinder.
 

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I understand the theory of meth/water injection and why it works in a forced induction application. I understand that it allows you to run leaner and add timing without the fear of detonation, and it cools the intake charge.
Why do kits cost $300? Meth/Water is simply winter type washer fluid that is injected into the intake. What psi has to be maintained to be safe? Why could I not just run the wiper/washer resivoir hose (through a pressure regulator) to the intake manifold. I'm not going to constantly run it, but factory washer electric motors put out a decent amount of pressure and are readily and cheaply available.

I know I sound like I'm a freakin cheap, but I'm the general manager of a salvage yard and have access to hundreds of washer jugs and pumps. Anybody know anything about meth/water injection psi?
I know Aquamist rates their pumps at about 125 psi, obviously though, its not just pressure, volume is something to take into account as well. Another thing to consider is you can't really know the exact concentration of methanol to water that's present in windshield washer fluid, its not always consistent. Similarly, you don't really need to be firing detergents into your engine and I know some WW fluid has plenty of those. IIRC you want the meth concentration to be about 15% of the fuel injected. I'm pretty sure alot of the kits use Shurflo pumps which can be purchased for $60-80 bucks.


This system would not be for street use unless a planned race is gonna happen. This would be a straight track setup for the 1/4 mile. That way it can be turned on and used only when the nitrous is planned to be used. Timing and jetting would be changed before the nitrous/meth/water system was engaged.
If you planned on doing it like that I run an RPM window switch and have it start spraying a bit for you hit the juice. If you get it dialed in right you could just turn on the system and not have to worry about it after that.
 
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