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alright, i got this crazy idea in my head, im going to turn my honda into an alcohol burner! i mean its completely feasable, the only issue is that cold start ups are either a bitch, or wont happen at all (by cold i mean at 0*F). I've been doing research on this lately and have come up with plans for still that will produce 20L per hour of ethanol. I have also been doing research to find out what i need to replace to make the car run the same as stock. All fuel delivery items that are rubber need to be replaced with a different material Ie: steel braded lines, and new o rings on the fuel injectors. Other problems are that alcohol is more prone to in tank detonation, since it requires less air to combust. so i'll have to figre out something to stop in tank detonation, maybe i'll put the fuel in a re-fillable high strength plastic containter, also an electrically shielded fuel pump is required. Oh and last but not least an adjustable ecu. So, who has other ideas that could help?
 
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yeah, yeah i do thats why i think i need to be an engineer, but then again im not any good at math so im doing very terrible in school, but im just a genius when it comes to the science stuff! im doing more reseach for the fuel conversion, it looks like i need fuel injectors that are 127% larger than stock ie 240x1.27 = 305 cc injectors, the advantage of running alcohol is it resists predetination, and when used in high compression applications gets better gas mileage and makes more power than gas. so im thinking about getting some 12.1:1 comp pistons, b/c ethanol has an octane rating of 110. i mean were talking about making the fuel that F-1 cars run for about $.75 a gallon! think about it, gas is $3 it burns dirtier and has a lower octane rating ie less power (this isnt exactly scientifically true but we can get into semantics later), i dunno if 12.1 would be good on boost, but i know i could definately run 11.5:1 with 10 psi of boost. you wanna get in on this project?
 
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alright heres the basic run down i want to do this b/c alcohol is cheap, can handle the higher pressure of boost easier, has and average octane rating of 105-110 depending on the proof 200 proof is 110, and 180-190 is around 105. i can get a still that produces 20 Lph in my back yard, and produce it for $.75 per gallon. do the math thats less than 1/3 of what fuel costs now. what i need from you guys is to help me out with doing the high performance build part of this. Maybe this should be moved to engine building. Im thinking a JRSC, and 12.0:1 compression pistons. or maybe a turbo and 11.0:1 compression pistons. your imput is appreciated.
 

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Hey vts your are high....i can use high boost pressures without knocking and run with a cheap fuel. But turbo with 11:1 i think is quite dangerous in brazil everyone who turbo their cars use 14psi until 20psi but with 10:1 compression ratio.
Another tip: becareful with your fuel pump.....alchool will damage the pump (in 3 months i damage mine running with 100% de ethanol)! see ya!
 
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right thats the point i was making was that you can run super high psi and compression on alcohol with the cheapest fuel in the world
 

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my friend has a Chevrolet Celta (i bet you don't have this model in US) and he was using 14psi with 12,5:1 but the ignition was very retarded....
 
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i'd bet it was. isn't 12:1 the recommended compression for an alcohol powered vehicle?
 

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I've thought about an alcohal conversion myself.
You in'tank detonations can be solved w/ a fuel cell.
I don't think I would run high compression & high boost. Pick one.
When I lived on Denver , I was on the pit crew for an IMCA Modified car. It was alcohol powered. The biggest draw backs that I could see were High consumpsion rates, it's hydroscopic ( additives can minimise this issuie), & the spent gasses burned your eyes.
It could be a fun prodject.
 

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how about a sealed bag, for the gas tank? IE, split open a tank, insert a bag that has a shitload of vacuum in it, so there's no air, and figure out a way to suck out more air, as you put in the alcohol.. kinda like those space saver bags, you see on late night infomercials.. lol. also, i dunno the reasoning behind replacing 'rubber' hoses, but all SS braided lines are, are normal rubber hoses, with a stainless steel mesh around them, so they don't expand as much. if you're replacing them to withstand pressure, that'll be great, but.. if the alcohol degrades the rubber, than that's a no go, i'm thinking.
 

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ok guys the corrosion is a problem in alcohol but the rubber hoses resists this.....my coupe Ej1 run 10 years with 25%alcohol and e never had problems with the houses only the fuel pump....
see ya!
 

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my friend put isopropyl alcohol in about 4 gallons of gas in his rx-7 with a standalone and it passed emissions :) the only two things he has left on his emissions setup is the air pump and catalytic converter. air straight into the cat and alcohol in his tank. he passed, which i doubted because it was running pretty rich, he hasnt finished tuning yet..

the point is, alcohol burns much cleaner, and good for the environment?

good luck on your project.
 

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BlackMoon said:
something just occured to me . can you fill your tank to mix alcohol and petrol ( ratio about 1:5 ) like a cheap octane booster ?
if you mean petrol = gasoline ].....yeap!!!! Here in brazil we do that the results are pretty good!!
 
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I remeber several years ago MIT and other universitys at the behest of the federal govt. converted several chevy silverados to burn ethanol. (car and driver did an article on it) One of the problems was the fuel atomization was not as good as regular gasoline at ambient temp. Then found that heating up the ethanol (using and inline electric resistance) worked very well (they heated it to something like 140F) I figure besides all the other things you mentioned you might want to consider changing oil more frequently after the conversion (combusted ethnol tend to have more mositure than regular exhaust fumes) and so thus requires more frequent oil changes...

But this is a great idea. As for FI vs NA stick with NA and advance your timing to take advantage of the higher octane rating (coupled with higher CR) that way you can gain better mileage.

Good idea,

-Juan
p.s. it might be worth it for you to call on of the univeristies involved in that project i mentioned earlier, they could probably tell you what your setup is missing etc.. Also the quality control of your fuel is going to be very important.
 
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i've done a bitch worth of investigation on this, and heres how you produce the fuel, you build a charles 803 still, it costs 600 to make, and produces 20L per hour that you run it, you use corn since here in the Us we have an excess of it to produce cheap grain alcohol, i found what i can use as a stabilzer to make it so the alcohol doesnt eat the rubber fittings, cold weather starter fluid. ya know that stuff you get at autozone thats made of methanol for $2 and it makes your car start well? as for making the alcohol atonomize better i was thinking about getting a block warmer, and run the coils around the fuel lines as well as the engine block its self for cold-weather starting. im thinking that the plastic bag in the gas tank is the best idea since there wont be any o2 in it to make the alcohol detonate in tank. just re-rig the fuel pump the work like a soda dispensor works. you all know how those work right? and im not talking about running E-25 (75% gas 25% alcohol) im talking about home-brewing my own fuel at home. i mean how can you beat 105 octane for $.75 a gallon?! so i dont think i'll use boost just high compression, maybe use d16a1 pistons those have a comp of 11.1:1 in y8's dont they? what pistons should i use guys? oh im thinking a low boost super charger and high comp pistons would be the best to get all the power possible outta this juice! MORE IMPUT THIS IS THE SMARTEST THREAD YET!
 

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Yes alcohol works better in high temperature that's why in brazil we can use without problems. Hey VTS use the ZC pistons (12,5:1 on Y8) and T-25 @ 8 psi!!! this i'll be very sweet!!!
 
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