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Discussion Starter #1
Hello everyone, I have a lot of questions that I want to hear from experienced techs that know a thing or two about turbos.

I am buying a D16Y8 motor and I currently have a Garrett TB0357 T3/T4 turbo that came from a 89 saab that says its max boost is 16psi.

I want to build this car to get around 200hp. I don't care to have to much power for two reasons...
1. I autocross this car and I've seen so many over powered civics that look like a car on ice, lemmie say, no bueno lol
2. I am not drag racing or street racing this car...At least not too much

So I kinda want to over build this car (build it for 15-20psi but only run it for 10psi I can get 50k out of this motor).

So here are my first basic questions...
1. How should I build the bottom end for good med boost but more power on lower end? I heard vitara pistons will drop the compression so low you need a lot of boost, but I also heard that stock pistons can't handle that well over 8psi for long (Again, I will autocross and daily drive this car so it will get redlined a couple times a month)
2. How should I build the top end? It has VTEC as you know but I don't think just putting ARP headstuds is good enough for me. Should I add the whole comp head kit with cam, retainers and valves?

The turbo is almost ready to go, I have the IC piping, I need to buy a cast iron manifold, oil catch can, and I think that's about it (obviously the oil and cooler lines)...

So I added myself on this site because my co-workers at Honda said this is definitely a good place to ask, I hope to get some good feedback from you guys and thnx for the time... If I can play around and find how to add pictures I will.
 

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with vitaras compression depends on what rods with combine them with, as for making the motor last take everything to reputable machine shop and make sure everything is to spec when assembled
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Yes the machining part will definitely go to a machine shop with the block section installation. I heard the CP pistons and Eagle rods were a good set-up b/c it makes it a 9:1 ratio. Which should be good with 10 psi no?
 

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it all depends on your budget vitara are good for a realible budget build cp pistons are one of better brand of pistons and are forged so they will hold up alot better
 

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Hello everyone, I have a lot of questions that I want to hear from "experienced techs" that know a thing or two about turbos.

I am buying a D16Y8 motor and I currently have a Garrett TB0357 T3/T4 turbo that came from a 89 saab that says its max boost is 16psi.

I want to build this car to get around 200hp. I don't care to have to much power for two reasons...
1. I autocross this car and I've seen so many over powered civics that look like a car on ice, lemmie say, no bueno lol
2. I am not drag racing or street racing this car...At least not too much

So I kinda want to over build this car (build it for 15-20psi but only run it for 10psi I can get 50k out of this motor).

So here are my first basic questions...
1. How should I build the bottom end for good med boost but more power on lower end? I heard vitara pistons will drop the compression so low you need a lot of boost, but I also heard that stock pistons can't handle that well over 8psi for long (Again, I will autocross and daily drive this car so it will get redlined a couple times a month)
2. How should I build the top end? It has VTEC as you know but I don't think just putting ARP headstuds is good enough for me. Should I add the whole comp head kit with cam, retainers and valves?

The turbo is almost ready to go, I have the IC piping, I need to buy a cast iron manifold, oil catch can, and I think that's about it (obviously the oil and cooler lines)...

So I added myself on this site because my co-workers at Honda said this is definitely a good place to ask, I hope to get some good feedback from you guys and thnx for the time... If I can play around and find how to add pictures I will.
you can go a whole automotive tech career and not rebuild an engine or know a lot about turbos. you want info from enthusiasts you rebuild there engine, put together a low boost turbo setup and spend all there time tuning it and tinkering with it, then decided there not running enough boost and build a stronger block and bigger turbo and spend hours and hours tuning that setup.
 

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You can get 9:1 with vitaras on stock length rods. You just need to use a d17 crank. You have to machine the snout to make it work with the d16 timing gear/oil pump IIRC. And you can have d16 eagle rods machined to fit the 1.7 crank, I think it's just a bevel that needs to go in the big end. The d17 crank is a good way to get a little extra bottom end.

If you are going to autoX I would use a smaller turbo than a T3/T4, the quick spool of the turbo will also get you more torque in the lower RPMs. I would also step the compression up a tad ... I'm currently running 10.2:1 on stock D15b7 internals. With my setup I am almost right at your power goal running only 8 lbs of boost, on a tiny turbo, with a really conservative tune.

Quick and easy fun AutoX/Street setup:
10:1 forged bottom end
t25 or t28 size turbo
ARP headstuds
good tune

Call it a day. I wouldn't bother with upgrading the valve train unless you are planning on either getting an aftermarket cam (which can help shift your power band where you want it) or revving past the stock redline ... or both.
 

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That turbo is way too big for autox. I wouldn't run a compression ratio of less than 10:1 for autox. What transmission are you going to run?
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Would a compression ratio of 10:1 be to much for a turbo tho? I thought if I do that high then I would definitely need aftermarket pistons so they can handle the higher compression plus 8-10 lbs of boost. I want to run an LSD si tranny but honestly, anything is better then I have right now. the only trans with a higher gear ratio then mine is the cx model.

So if I just rebuild the head to stock with arp head bolts, put a forged bottom end with a 9-10:1 ratio, try and get a smaller turbo, with a professional tune... It should be a good build for around 180-200whp and a "decently long" life?


Thnx for all the replies so fast. FYI money isn't my biggest issue, I want to have it all done like tomorrow but I am patient enough to just wait, the more I spend, the longer it will last I am ok with it, I just don't want to build it then BAM 15k later buying a new motor (hence why I don't care for the 300hp, 13sec 1/4 mile) Its a build to get obviously more power then what I have and quicker acceleration for autox
 

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With a small turbo and high compression you will get a big juicy power band. Take a look at the dyno sheet in my build thread, and definitely take a look at 90civichillclimber's build thread. We have similar principles behind our builds, his engine has a monstrous area under the curve and is a bit farther along the build path than mine. Mine is a bit lower on the power band but still has a relatively flat torque curve ... and I'm running on stock internals (on a 1.5). There are plenty of people on this board pushing big numbers (300+ whp) on vitara builds that have been holding together fine for years so you should have no trouble with a full forged bottom end pushing 200ish whp.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Thnx. I'll definitely check those out. Is there a way u can reply with a link to them? Sorry I'm really new at this site
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Hey I took a look at the threads, thanks again. Like I said, I'm pretty new at this build, I have only really done suspension work but I am currently battling for first in my autocross division so my car isn't doing so bad with a stock VTEC-E lol. I just wish I can up the power more to blow away the competition. I will try and post more updates on this thread for you guys to see what I have been working on. I am getting a hold of a tuner shop to see if I can get a reliable dyno tuner to get all that stuff sorted out. I found out a co-worker of mine works at a race shop and they do machining to so that will help me out on all my machine work...

I think I have decided to put a forged bottom end and keep a 9.5-10:1 ratio,
keep the head mostly stock with arp studs and maybe a comp valve kit and cam gear,
try to swap or sell the turbo to get a smaller one (one with an external wastegate and oil cooler lines only [don't feel like installing the cooler lines]).

What does that sound? oh and probably keep it under 12psi total. I'm guessing I won't hit 200 but even 180 would be good enough as I will be totaling about 100whp gain lol
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Yea thnx. I spent most the money on suspension cuz I figured that would be the best route to go first...

skunk2 front and rear camber kit (-3.25 front, -3.0 rear)
skunk2 pro coilovers (I forgot how low it was but I am right around 6" from the ground
ITR 22mm rear sway bar
24mm front sway bar
EBC Gold slotted and dimpled rotors and brake pads in the front
strut tower bars on top and bottom in front and rear
C-pillar bar
205/50/15 Kuhmo Estca tires
Steel brake lines in front (no name but I LOVE the increase in braking)
Beaks rear tie bar
Rear disc conversion from SI hatch
Skunk2 rear control arms
... I believe that's about it. I am gettin some polyurethane trailing arm bushings b/c the camber I have is puttin some tear on the stock rubber one.


Oh quick question... Can I convert an internal wastegate turbo to an external?
 

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What class are you running in? You do realize that boosting the car will make you jump into a new class right? And you'll probably want to ditch the street tires for racing once you are boosted.

If you are running that t3/t4 turbo on a that forged bottom I bet you will reach 200 whp at 12 psi or under ... I have a smaller engine and a much smaller turbo and I'm hitting 180 whp @ 8 psi.

Yes you can "convert" and internally gated turbo to an externally gated turbo. Pull the waste gate actuator off, weld the flapper shut and run an external waste gate.

If you don't plan on getting an aftermarket cam don't bother with the adjustable cam gear. There is no reason to adjust the position of a stock cam.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Yea i heded if i boost ill still be able to be in My class. Only for 1.7L and up boosted have to join medium sedan. I am in small sedan.

So I really don't have to worry about upgraded retainers, vavles, or springs on 10.5:1 compression with 10-12psi?
 

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Yea i heded if i boost ill still be able to be in My class. Only for 1.7L and up boosted have to join medium sedan. I am in small sedan.

So I really don't have to worry about upgraded retainers, vavles, or springs on 10.5:1 compression with 10-12psi?
Not if you are going to stick with the stock cam, and you have a pretty mild power goal.

What class are you running currently? From the look of your build so far itt sounds like you should probably in street prepared or street touring ... if you add boost you'll have to move to street modified, or are you running some sort of funky Autocross classes I've never heard of, or some open class?
 
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