Honda D Series Forum banner

1 - 14 of 14 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I'm currently still gearing up to turbocharge my d16y8 for the street with a goal of 200whp and a Max of 8psi on all stock internals.

I want to keep my ac unit and ps in and am doing all the downpipe and charge line myself but what manifold would you recommend for this?

Secondly I already have a heat exchange for a intercooler set up (got it for free) can I tie it into my cars engine cooling system and if so where/how? And how would this effect the cooling system.

This is my first major car project so any advice is appreciated, relavent or not.
 

·
Meat Popsicle
91 CRX Si
Joined
·
2,940 Posts
IF you're doing any kind of water to air intercooling, you would want to run a separate heat exchanger, pump, and possibly a reservoir

Not going to cool much down with 180+ degree engine coolant.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,638 Posts
Log manifold will be your best bet for keeping AC and PS. It can be done with other manifolds but if your end goal is only going to be 200whp no need to fork out big bucks for a bling manifold that will likely never see anywhere close to its full potential.
 

·
Registered
ej8
Joined
·
6,367 Posts
Check my build for some ideas.

But if you do want water to the intercooler you would need a different type of intercooler. An air to water one.
Other the that you can mist the intercooler with water to help cool it down.
But most isn't needed for a street car.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Okay thanks. I just thought it would be easier to run water than air because I already have a exchange for the charge line and it would mean not running the charge line between the ac and the block.

What about weight wouldnt a separate water cooling system add to much weight?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,638 Posts
99% of people that use a water to air intercooler use a system that doesn't have a second radiator. The water to air is more effiecent if used with a closed system that pumps chilled water, ie ice water to lower the airs temperature.

Its kind of ass backwards to try and cool the air charge coming out of the turbo with an air to water intercooler where the water in that system is then cooled by normal air. You could skip a whole bunch of steps and just use an air to air intercooler.

Not exactly sure what this heat exchanger is that you have but its going to be much simper to source another intercooler.

I believe the system you are trying to build is most often used in superchargers, where the use of an air to air is impractical.
 

·
Two men shy of a group
99 civic sedan ex
Joined
·
1,312 Posts
If you want to know for sure the manifold will retain a/c p/s then I would buy a go atoworks cast v2 manifold, if you want to take a gamble on fitment with ac just to save 60$ then give an ebay manifold a try but I would look at all the different cast styles, you want the wastegate in the middle of all runners not on one cylinder
 

·
Registered
2000 Tundra
Joined
·
153 Posts
99% of people that use a water to air intercooler use a system that doesn't have a second radiator. The water to air is more effiecent if used with a closed system that pumps chilled water, ie ice water to lower the airs temperature.

Its kind of ass backwards to try and cool the air charge coming out of the turbo with an air to water intercooler where the water in that system is then cooled by normal air. You could skip a whole bunch of steps and just use an air to air intercooler.

Not exactly sure what this heat exchanger is that you have but its going to be much simper to source another intercooler.

I believe the system you are trying to build is most often used in superchargers, where the use of an air to air is impractical.
A lot of it is packaging and charge pipe length. You can run less piping in areas where there is more room and with much smaller water lines you can position the heat exchanger in different areas. The heat exchanger is also usually much smaller than an a2a IC. It allows more flexibility. I'm toying with the idea myself for my crx because of space issues.
 

·
Registered
94 Integra
Joined
·
1,226 Posts
If it's a race car then it doesn't need a second radiator, which is generally called a heat exchanger in this situation. If you EVER intend to drive it off the track, then you'll need one. It would go in the same spot as a front mount intercooler. They're usually about 1/3 to 1/2 the size of a fmic so they can be made to fit nearly anywhere. I've seen one road race Civic use a half-rad for the engine and a 2nd half-rad next to it just for the A2W intercooler liquid.

If the A2W system is designed correctly, it can provide better cooling especially for low speed tracks. The water can extract heat from the intercooler far more efficiently than air can.
 

·
Registered
98 Civic LX
Joined
·
175 Posts
hook up your A/C lines and freeze the air coming in :p

If the pipe is vacuum tight the heat exchange will be nice and cold.

However, you will loose internal A/C. But hay, you keep the A/C pump :p
 

·
()*#$(*$
93 Legend L Coupe.
Joined
·
11,404 Posts
I actually disagree with the above assesment of when an auxiliary heat exchanger is necessary. On the street, you are not likely to do more than a 1-4 pull. If the system has enough capacity, the liquid won't be heat soaked in the less than 60 seconds that takes in a boosted system. On a track (not a drag strip), you are out for at least 10 minutes, hammering the go pedal. You certainly need much more capacity and a heat exchanger installed in a manner to get enough air through it to shed as much heat as possible.

That being said, I think it is rather daft to not have a liquid to air intercooler system without a decent sized heat exchanger. There is very little penalty for having more capacity than necessary, except for a few extra pounds (which is more than made up for with forced induction, and on a FWD car, the additional weight in front of the driveline is actually good for traction and if kept low, won't effect the center of gravity too detrimentally).

If one datalogged a few temperatures and had an accurate dyno plot, you could actually calculate out exactly how much capacity the system would need to within a few ounces. The math isn't too complicated, but it is involved as you would have to figure out the mass flow through the engine, the efficiency of the turbo, the efficiency of the primary heat exchanger, usually found through datalogging pre- and post- temps, and a few other bits of info that are easily obtained.

Modern air/air intercooler cores are much better than they used to be, but, they will NEVER match the overall system efficiency possible with a heat exchange media with a much higher heat capacity than air, such as water, though a coolant/water mixture is much better at exchanging heat more quickly than straight water, and is better for what you are building the system out of than even distilled water. There are several ways to approach this, too. A typical coolant mix is very common, but if the secondary heat exchanger is large enough and made to function well enough in use, you could use a variety of other liquids that have much faster heat transfer rates if you have enough flow capacity in the system to move the liquid fast enough to keep up with the actual heat exchange happening.

Yeah . . . I've thought about this a little. heh
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
370 Posts
I have seen guys use water to air systems that work well but they are complex and add weight. These systems are normally used when air to air is not practical. Best example I can think of is a rear mounted engine. I think you are far better off to just mount a air to air under the front bumper like most turbo Hondas have. Even if you did get the water to air unit for free, by the time you get a heat exchanger, reservoir, lines and pump, it will very likely cost you more.
 

·
()*#$(*$
93 Legend L Coupe.
Joined
·
11,404 Posts
Show me a cheap, light, effective and properly sized air/air intercooler, please.

Most bar and plate intercoolers are pretty much ONLY heat sinks and not very good at using the pressure change to actually cool anything and are also actually horrifically badly flowing.

You are very correct that a proper liquid/air setup will cost more, but hey, it works more effectively in most cases, so, you can go cheap and sorta work or spend more time and money to put together a system that is better more of the time.
 
1 - 14 of 14 Posts
Top