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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
'97 Civic DX Hatch with a '98 D16Y5 (HX) swap. Complete changeover, engine harness, ECU, all stock. Ran fine for 5 years and then sold it to a friend who needed a car for work. He had it less than 24 hours before it threw a code for misfire.

- replaced fuel filter, no change.
- plugs and wires were recent.
- deduced that #4 wasn't getting fuel, pulled the injector and swapped it for #3, no change.

Concluded it was #4 injector connector is not getting power. Would grounds do I need to check or what multimeter procedure do I follow to trace the culprit? Could it be the ECU? If so, why after running flawless when I owned it?

Thanks,

Mak
 

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1987 CRXSi
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How did you diagnose there is not power to the injector? Did you measure the voltage at the injector with you multimeter?
 

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Retired From Hondas
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Check for corrosion on the contacts on the injector clip and also the ECU.


the car is 21 years old.. they arent designed to run forever
 

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Yellow/black wires at the injector plug/connectors are 12 volt ignition power. The brown,red,blue and yellow wires are ground signal from Ecu. The power wires are in the gray plug under the intake manifold with the cap. Before you go crazy make sure that you do or don't have 12volts to the injector plug. Then work your way from there.

It could be something else and not the injector.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Swapping #3 injector for #4 and having no change is why I ruled out the injector itself. When I pulled the rail, #4 had no fuel in the manifold port (it looked dry) while the other three where wet. I confirmed the injector was not firing by using a flathead screwdriver against the injector body and not hearing the tale-tale tick*tick*tick that the others exhibited. I tested the injector itself by applying 12v on the bench and hearing the click as well as seeing liquid squirt out. The connector itself looks to be in good shape, no corrosion.

The next step will be testing the connector with a multimeter as suggested and examining the gray block under the manifold, then checking the ECU connection. The car is in great shape otherwise, no rust, etc. Possibly redo the ground on the thermostat housing as I've heard it can produce odd behaviors. I'll report back once I've done at least those things. The car is 30 minutes away so getting to it between work days is a bit of a hassle lugging what tools I think I'll need. Thanks everyone!

Mak
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
FarmerD, I don't understand what you mean.

The car starts and runs but very roughly. #4 injector has no audible *click* of any kind while running. Unplugging the #4 connector while idling has no effect. Unplugging any of the others results in immediate crappier idle. It's been singled out.
 

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Classic Man
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So because its not clicking, it has no power? What does it take for a circuit to be complete? How does an injector circuit work? Did you read the above explanations? 2jz spelled it out for you.

Go get a test light or a multimeter. Until then, dont expect anyone to be able to help you.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Perhaps I should have prefaced my diagnosis as "no power to injector so far" pending further investigation.

As previously stated, the car is one town over and I brought tools for what I assumed was a fuel issue. I'll be sure to bring my MM and OBD2 scanner next trip. Everyone who posted gave insightful recommendations and I will be following them so I wasn't sure how I pissed in your corn flakes, FarmerD. I'll report back in a few days when I get back out there.
 

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Classic Man
Civic
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Two guys basically said what I said, that you didnt diagnose it correctly. and one guy said to try checking for corrosion at the ECU, which is a good idea I suppose, but hes assuming u are totally retarded, and actually do have power at the injector... because the ECU doesnt control injector power. It controls the ground circuit. Lols.

Get a Noid light, put it on the injector circuit and let us know what happens when the car runs.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Went back with a MM and a homemade Noid light. Yel/blk wire on #4 was getting 12v, the yel ground wasn't getting jack. Depinned A1 on the ECU and ran a long wire from injector to A1. She ran like a champ. It was getting dark so I packed it up and put everything back like stock so I'd have a clean slate for running a bypass another time and we cranked her again for shiggles. Runs fine. Test drove fine. Chalk it up to new owner luck? The ECU harness looked pristine for 20 years old, no corrosion.

Thanks for all who suggested things to try, even sourass FarmerD :TU:

Now all I need to solve is the "slow response" O2 code (P1163? if I remember) that comes and goes.

Mak
 

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98 Civic HX D16Y5
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Now all I need to solve is the "slow response" O2 code (P1163? if I remember) that comes and goes.

Mak
P1163 intermittent is what happens with no catalytic converter, a gutted catalytic converter or a bad catalytic converter in my experience

My D16Y5 spit that code when I ran headers instead of the OEM Cata-fold, my catalytic converter cracked at the outlet tube weld. If I cleared it it would come back sporadically.

I know, I know, it's fucking horrible to run NO catalytic converter. But $25 headers were easier... :shrug
 

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Went back with a MM and a homemade Noid light. Yel/blk wire on #4 was getting 12v, the yel ground wasn't getting jack. Depinned A1 on the ECU and ran a long wire from injector to A1. She ran like a champ. It was getting dark so I packed it up and put everything back like stock so I'd have a clean slate for running a bypass another time and we cranked her again for shiggles. Runs fine. Test drove fine. Chalk it up to new owner luck? The ECU harness looked pristine for 20 years old, no corrosion.

Thanks for all who suggested things to try, even sourass FarmerD :TU:

Now all I need to solve is the "slow response" O2 code (P1163? if I remember) that comes and goes.

Mak


He was not being a sour ass.

you simply were not getting that you need the ground also. But you found that out when the noid light did not work and had to run a wire bypass.

why people think others are salty or sour for attempting to prod them into doing better diagnosis, I will never know.

Be happy people are still around this site to prod.

Nobody learns a damn thing if always given the answer point blank
 

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Classic Man
Civic
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Went back with a MM and a homemade Noid light. Yel/blk wire on #4 was getting 12v, the yel ground wasn't getting jack. Depinned A1 on the ECU and ran a long wire from injector to A1. She ran like a champ. It was getting dark so I packed it up and put everything back like stock so I'd have a clean slate for running a bypass another time and we cranked her again for shiggles. Runs fine. Test drove fine. Chalk it up to new owner luck? The ECU harness looked pristine for 20 years old, no corrosion.

Thanks for all who suggested things to try, even sourass FarmerD :TU:

Now all I need to solve is the "slow response" O2 code (P1163? if I remember) that comes and goes.

Mak

Mak, good job. You did it! :)

Seriously, proud of ya. :biggrin:
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 · (Edited)
I say "sour ass" in jest, I'm not as butthurt as it seems. He took the time to help me out as did others and I respect that. I'm appreciative of the community as it has dwindled elsewhere (CarolinaHondas is dead for instance, Honda-Tech can be frustrating sifting through garbage info). Crack at being prodded or not I took the advice as gospel lol.

To reply Sac, my swap was stock. Stock exhaust manifold, cat, everything. After researching bulletins, it appears this is a factory flaw in the ECU. A31 and A32 ECUs have a sensitivity glitch and the only solution is replacing it with an A33. If I end up buying the car back (he's afraid of it now) I'll either replace it or clear it as it pops up, which was random. The car was never driven hard.

Mak
 

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98 Civic HX D16Y5
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To reply Sac, my swap was stock. Stock exhaust manifold, cat, everything. After researching bulletins, it appears this is a factory flaw in the ECU. A31 and A32 ECUs have a sensitivity glitch and the only solution is replacing it with an A33. If I end up buying the car back (he's afraid of it now) I'll either replace it or clear it as it pops up, which was random. The car was never driven hard.

Mak
This is interesting. "Bulletins" as in Honda service bulletins? Do you have links? That's good to know if I happen across an A33.

Are you sure the catalytic converter is good? Recent emissions test results?
 

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why is he afraid of it?

that it had a symptom of a 20+ year old car?

its the perfect car for someone wary, as any and all issues are easy enough to find and its cheap to maintain.

Hopefully he keeps it.
 
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