Honda D Series Forum banner

1 - 20 of 22 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I’m currently building my d16y7 with vitara pistons + speed factory no notch rods. And I want to put a block guard in, but I don’t want to cut corners and not bore out the cylinder sleeves if I need to when I put in the block guard. So do I need to bore out the cylinders if I use a block guard?
 

·
Registered
93 Civic HB SI
Joined
·
1,317 Posts
That is a very specific power goal. Any reason? It's gonna cost a lot haha. Guys in that power arena on a D aren't using eBay generic blockguards.

If not cutting corners, why not go CSS?

20200331_003427.jpg

20200406_165357.jpg


Send your block to Jeff at CNCWerx for the CSS insert.

And yes either way, you should rebore the cylinders after getting anything that will squeeze the cylinders. Send block and pistons to machine shop, so they can make proper bore cuts.

Again, not cutting corners? At that power level, do you really want to use Vitaras? I know guys have, but D-Serious has seen them start to fracture around the wrist pin bosses after repeated usage. He's just been super lucky to catch them a couple times during a rebuild before they self destructed.

He went with real forged slugs after having one shatter and mess up his 4Piston $1500 ported head.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,821 Posts
vitara's are great for low performance builds. Like if you wanted a lazy ass turbo spool, but wanted to hit 300hp on the dyno.


Arias/Wiseco for pistons, whatever rods you find with ARP bolts, and have a machine shop inspect and balance everything.

Block guards are not needed at 400-500 hp. you need SUPPORT. a cheap blockguard misaligns the bores. You need a special piece or setup like CSS mentioned above, that fits YOUR engine, rather than "A D-series" engine
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
39 Posts
vitara's are great for low performance builds. Like if you wanted a lazy ass turbo spool, but wanted to hit 300hp on the dyno.


Arias/Wiseco for pistons, whatever rods you find with ARP bolts, and have a machine shop inspect and balance everything.

Block guards are not needed at 400-500 hp. you need SUPPORT. a cheap blockguard misaligns the bores. You need a special piece or setup like CSS mentioned above, that fits YOUR engine, rather than "A D-series" engine
what do you personally think about css for a substantial d series?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,821 Posts
Like DrTalon said above, CSS is a good way to get proper cylinder support.

There are DIY methods, such as the sugar and devcron method, then when support is cured, you use water to dissolve the sugar.

Getting the power is super easy. Add boost and fuel.

KEEPING IT ALIVE is the hard part.


I suggest going over builds making 500+ and going over what they did to support it, read about any failures they post, and learn what happened and why.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
vitara's are great for low performance builds. Like if you wanted a lazy ass turbo spool, but wanted to hit 300hp on the dyno.


Arias/Wiseco for pistons, whatever rods you find with ARP bolts, and have a machine shop inspect and balance everything.

Block guards are not needed at 400-500 hp. you need SUPPORT. a cheap blockguard misaligns the bores. You need a special piece or setup like CSS mentioned above, that fits YOUR engine, rather than "A D-series" engine
Alright, thank you for your advice. But I also have a lot of contradicting evidence that shows that you can get 500hp reliable with vitara pistons and just a block guard:

He has ran that hatch civic with 500hp and the same vitara pistons for years and years now man, and hasn’t had a single issue with it, and he is also using literally a 50$ block guard lmao
 

·
Registered
93 Civic HB SI
Joined
·
1,317 Posts
That's D-Serious... watch ALL his personal videos haha, the TRC video makes it all look like there is no pain lol.

It's true he manages 500whp, but it is NOT reliable.

He's using a D15B bottom end which has a slightly more desirable rod/stroke ratio so it likes to rev.

He has also o-ringed the block, without that he'd be blowing HG's left and right haha.

He's also using a serious cylinder head, CNC ported by 4Piston, cam, bigger valves, valve springs, etc.

He's also went big studded using SRT4 head studs.

He also destroys transmissions left and right, and resorted to using straight cut 3rd and 4th gears just so they don't evaporate, but now shatters diffs lol.

He's had Vitara's fracture around the wrist pin bosses, manage to spot it during a rebuild, and replace them with a new set. He even had one explode and ruin his 4Piston head.

One of the last videos he posted shows him throwing money down, and leaving the vitaras behind, but he hasn't shown this beast yet. I expect life has happened, and he's put this on the back burner for now, but I can't wait to see what he builds!

How do I know all this? Because I've watched literally every single one of his videos in hopes I could see what he did to keep shit alive at 500whp, because I have had a hard time even getting 375 without HG issues.

As mattliston said, even the awesome D-Serious has had trouble keeping it all alive. But I think D-Serious has done an amazing job cataloging all his failures/successes, but the most outstanding point of all his videos is that the D powertrain architecture at 500whp is TOTALLY NOT RELIABLE lol.

You will be at 500whp, break it, 500whp, break it, 500whp, break it.... it will never stop, as he graciously shows. To do this, you need time AND money. D-Serious randomly bought a twin turbo C6 vette when his D was down and broken, so he could drive something while he was fixing the D. If you've got money to play like that, then 500whp the shit out of a D! But you'll be spending a shit ton of money and time to fix it, as he shows.

It is funny, that he always says though, that he much prefers the D series in his hatch over his vette or STI, etc. That's pretty cool to hear lol.

I've settled for 300-350whp out of my D honestly, and come to appreciate it, because I don't have time and money to push the envelope like others have on the D. It will be insanely unreliable above that, and I don't want that. I don't mind tinkering on stuff, but to have to yank the engine or trans out every other weekend blows....

I've got a B16A about to be built, because I could literally throw a turbo on it in stock form and be at 400whp on 12PSI. It's a much better architecture for making power. K series is even better..

As soon as I finish building this damn garage, things are coming....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,821 Posts
Posting ONE video where you saw something is not NEARLY enough evidence of an idea in action.

Especially when you do not have the full story behind it.
 

·
Brokedick Millionaire
Joined
·
40,665 Posts
That's D-Serious... watch ALL his personal videos haha, the TRC video makes it all look like there is no pain lol.

It's true he manages 500whp, but it is NOT reliable.

He's using a D15B bottom end which has a slightly more desirable rod/stroke ratio so it likes to rev.

He has also o-ringed the block, without that he'd be blowing HG's left and right haha.

He's also using a serious cylinder head, CNC ported by 4Piston, cam, bigger valves, valve springs, etc.

He's also went big studded using SRT4 head studs.

He also destroys transmissions left and right, and resorted to using straight cut 3rd and 4th gears just so they don't evaporate, but now shatters diffs lol.

He's had Vitara's fracture around the wrist pin bosses, manage to spot it during a rebuild, and replace them with a new set. He even had one explode and ruin his 4Piston head.

One of the last videos he posted shows him throwing money down, and leaving the vitaras behind, but he hasn't shown this beast yet. I expect life has happened, and he's put this on the back burner for now, but I can't wait to see what he builds!

How do I know all this? Because I've watched literally every single one of his videos in hopes I could see what he did to keep shit alive at 500whp, because I have had a hard time even getting 375 without HG issues.

As mattliston said, even the awesome D-Serious has had trouble keeping it all alive. But I think D-Serious has done an amazing job cataloging all his failures/successes, but the most outstanding point of all his videos is that the D powertrain architecture at 500whp is TOTALLY NOT RELIABLE lol.

You will be at 500whp, break it, 500whp, break it, 500whp, break it.... it will never stop, as he graciously shows. To do this, you need time AND money. D-Serious randomly bought a twin turbo C6 vette when his D was down and broken, so he could drive something while he was fixing the D. If you've got money to play like that, then 500whp the shit out of a D! But you'll be spending a shit ton of money and time to fix it, as he shows.

It is funny, that he always says though, that he much prefers the D series in his hatch over his vette or STI, etc. That's pretty cool to hear lol.

I've settled for 300-350whp out of my D honestly, and come to appreciate it, because I don't have time and money to push the envelope like others have on the D. It will be insanely unreliable above that, and I don't want that. I don't mind tinkering on stuff, but to have to yank the engine or trans out every other weekend blows....

I've got a B16A about to be built, because I could literally throw a turbo on it in stock form and be at 400whp on 12PSI. It's a much better architecture for making power. K series is even better..

As soon as I finish building this damn garage, things are coming....
This is why I suggested another postet to just go with a B series transmission above 500 whp.

300-350 whp, stock D with an LSD, 22x8x13 slicks, it'll live forever if you don't break the shifter forks. Even 400 whp if you take care of the front suspension issues. Beyond that, it not it, but WHEN.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
That's D-Serious... watch ALL his personal videos haha, the TRC video makes it all look like there is no pain lol.

It's true he manages 500whp, but it is NOT reliable.

He's using a D15B bottom end which has a slightly more desirable rod/stroke ratio so it likes to rev.

He has also o-ringed the block, without that he'd be blowing HG's left and right haha.

He's also using a serious cylinder head, CNC ported by 4Piston, cam, bigger valves, valve springs, etc.

He's also went big studded using SRT4 head studs.

He also destroys transmissions left and right, and resorted to using straight cut 3rd and 4th gears just so they don't evaporate, but now shatters diffs lol.

He's had Vitara's fracture around the wrist pin bosses, manage to spot it during a rebuild, and replace them with a new set. He even had one explode and ruin his 4Piston head.

One of the last videos he posted shows him throwing money down, and leaving the vitaras behind, but he hasn't shown this beast yet. I expect life has happened, and he's put this on the back burner for now, but I can't wait to see what he builds!

How do I know all this? Because I've watched literally every single one of his videos in hopes I could see what he did to keep shit alive at 500whp, because I have had a hard time even getting 375 without HG issues.

As mattliston said, even the awesome D-Serious has had trouble keeping it all alive. But I think D-Serious has done an amazing job cataloging all his failures/successes, but the most outstanding point of all his videos is that the D powertrain architecture at 500whp is TOTALLY NOT RELIABLE lol.

You will be at 500whp, break it, 500whp, break it, 500whp, break it.... it will never stop, as he graciously shows. To do this, you need time AND money. D-Serious randomly bought a twin turbo C6 vette when his D was down and broken, so he could drive something while he was fixing the D. If you've got money to play like that, then 500whp the shit out of a D! But you'll be spending a shit ton of money and time to fix it, as he shows.

It is funny, that he always says though, that he much prefers the D series in his hatch over his vette or STI, etc. That's pretty cool to hear lol.

I've settled for 300-350whp out of my D honestly, and come to appreciate it, because I don't have time and money to push the envelope like others have on the D. It will be insanely unreliable above that, and I don't want that. I don't mind tinkering on stuff, but to have to yank the engine or trans out every other weekend blows....

I've got a B16A about to be built, because I could literally throw a turbo on it in stock form and be at 400whp on 12PSI. It's a much better architecture for making power. K series is even better..

As soon as I finish building this damn garage, things are coming....
so these guys are just dumbasses then for trying to make a 500hp civic reliable without o-ringing the engine head and using vitara pistons?:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,821 Posts
who said they were dumbass's? Or are you just putting words into people's mouths?

who said they were dumbass's? Or are you just putting words into people's mouths?
This is why I suggested another postet to just go with a B series transmission above 500 whp.

300-350 whp, stock D with an LSD, 22x8x13 slicks, it'll live forever if you don't break the shifter forks. Even 400 whp if you take care of the front suspension issues. Beyond that, it not it, but WHEN.
Plus with adapting a B series trans, that opens up the doors to an easy start to an AWD setup that you can actually find parts for!
 

·
BATSLOMAN GIVES NO FUCKS.
Joined
·
5,033 Posts
comes to ask question, doesn't like response.

O.P call a machine shop and ask them "if I want to use a block guard, do I need to have my sleeves machined"

that is the answer. delete your account, and go do whatever you want to do.

shit, skip the middle man. don't ask anybody a fucking thing and do whatever the fuck you want to do.

kick rocks my dude.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
comes to ask question, doesn't like response.

O.P call a machine shop and ask them "if I want to use a block guard, do I need to have my sleeves machined"

that is the answer. delete your account, and go do whatever you want to do.

shit, skip the middle man. don't ask anybody a fucking thing and do whatever the fuck you want to do.

kick rocks my dude.
no im not like upset at all, i just want to know if those two guys making those 500hp civics know that they are gonna blow their engine very quickly?
 

·
BATSLOMAN GIVES NO FUCKS.
Joined
·
5,033 Posts
yes.
2 or 3 passes.

the question is what will let go first.
axles? trans? head? pistons? shitty cam gear? bearings?


you don't want to "cut corners" so why are you trying to be as cheap about it as possible?

spend the money to make it handle 500hp. css the block, FORGED pistons, rods, injectors, oil pump, quality turbo (no ebay shit), head work, valves, springs, cam, intake manifold, fuel pump, all the custom piping and hoses, intercooler. we haven't even got to the axles or the trans or the engine mounts, or the sensors to make sure everything is doing what it should be. hondata is 700$ alone, then the time to tune it.

are your pockets deep enough to "not cut corners"?
 
  • Like
Reactions: drtalon123

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,821 Posts
no im not like upset at all, i just want to know if those two guys making those 500hp civics know that they are gonna blow their engine very quickly?
In searching, you will find many recommendations on a stock D16 to be 150-200whp max, yet there are a few people who have daily driven 300+whp STOCK engines.

Why? driving style. Care and maintenance. PAYING ATTENTION to their car. Looking at temps, pressures, fluid levels.


For every 1-2% of people going beyond expectations, there are people killing stock engines with STOCK power levels.



Not every video showing X amount of power is going to work out. This is why research is so fucking important.


I can find days and days worth of videos showing how cheap ebay blockguards worked out for them, but never see a follow up or long term review. But I can find 2-3 videos that perfectly explain what bore misalignment is and why it kills your piston rings. Just as an example.

Rule of thumb when building an engine, ALWYAS build it for far more than you actually plan to.


Look at how Honda themselves made the B, F (accord/prelude), and K engines. WAAAY stronger than they ever needed to be. Why? they can now properly handle idiot owners (like people not chanigng their freaking oil on time) all the way to people abusing or boosting them.


All that gets tossed out of the window when you go above stock power levels. Now you are running into the "supposed" factory flaws, which never would have even shown their faces with proper maintenance and stock power levels.


The D series is the weakest of all honda motors. Even an R18 or L15 is way stronger in factory form. There is a good reason why there are so few proper 600+whp D builds, and even fewer that are above 900whp.

While the horsepower record is north of 1,000 whp on a D series engine, likely only the outside part of the block is even honda anymore
 

·
Registered
93 Civic HB SI
Joined
·
1,317 Posts
so these guys are just dumbasses then for trying to make a 500hp civic reliable without o-ringing the engine head and using vitara pistons?:
Nope, not dumbasses at all, just trying to get youtube hits for their channels like everyone else who has a YouTube channel, a civic and an eBay account. It's whatever they want to spend money on, but they will all end up in the same boat, breaking shit.

If the goal is to simply hit 500whp just to say you hit that mark, that's easy. It takes a ton of money, but its straightforward. Beyond that, it WILL NOT be reliable, and it will kill itself some way some how, even with the best parts out there. A fact of the D.

500+whp in any D has its purpose making a couple passes, before needing a teardown, inspection and rebuild, like a true dragster is destined for. Top fuel gets torn down and rebuilt between passes! This is the same kind of stress you're putting on an engine that was never meant to see over 100whp.

Everyone who has built a D Series to 500+whp has easily put 10k into it, broke it a few times, put another 4-6k into it trying to make it "last", and almost all of them usually stop posting and making videos about the D once they have spent 20k, and announce they are going B or K series because quote "they've had their fun with the D, but going in a different direction", which is passive aggressive talk for "this fucking D about got my house foreclosed on, I can't keep this shit up".

It's a fact of life for the D. Those who have the money to continue to play with a D at 500+whp for more than a few passes are insanely dedicated to the D, like beyond reason. The only folks who have and continue to try setting records with higher power levels with the D are guys like Bisimoto, SpeedFactory or Humble and they're in another dimension when it comes to budgets and what the typical civic owner has to play with. But even they've let their D content and products slide, since the newer powertrains are far more superior and are where the money is.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13 Posts
Stop waisting time and money do it right the first time. So many builders and project starters are going cheap mostly for what content cause i sure as check its not going to be reliable. They all say the same thing, I should have done it right then first time. You go devcon and later you say i should of got a block guard and vise versa. We have excuses for everything besides actually investing in it and doing it right the first time.

Like anything built it all starts of with the foundation, thats what will limit you. Start off strong and later on you can throw whatever part you want at it at your pace.
DSCN6476.JPG
 
1 - 20 of 22 Posts
Top