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Discussion Starter #1
Hey!
My name is João and I live in Portugal.
I have a D16A8 (ZC) engine running in a Rover 216 Sportcoupe and I would like to get about 200hp on it without turbo, but in Europe isn't easy to get the best material.

I want that my engine project be something like this:




car info:
E-AT Mugen Civic Si Group A Racecar specification
Dimensions: 3,810mm x 1,630mm x 1,310mm (LxWxH)
Engine: Water cooled 4 cycle 4 cylinder DOHC 4 valve belt drive
Displacement: 1,595cm3
Peak power: 225PS
Peak torque: 20kgm
Front suspension: strut system
Rear suspension: axle system

Engine
Racing 30/50 - 30/50 Camshaft - what's this?
t=1.2 Cylinder Head Gasket
Racing Programmed PGM-FI
80% more fuel than standard Injectors
Aluminium forged, 2-ring Pistons
Full-floating Piston Pin Set
11.0:1 Compression Ratio
Aluminium cast with baffle plate Oil Pan
Double core Radiator
2-1 60mm diameter straight Exhaust Pipe
B&B single plate Clutch
Engine mount Hard Bush Set
Spark plug NGK #10
Oil filter spacer joint Aeroquip #12
Engine oil cooler 25 Rows #12
I already have a reprogrammable PGM-FI (OBD0 PP5) to optimize electronics, but need help to find:
- finer head gasket and thermal intake gaskets
- Racing Camshaft (stage 2, 3?)
........- need special valves?
........- " " " " " " " " " valve seals?
........- " " " " " " " " " valve springs?
- upgrade fuel rail
- upgrade fuel pressure regulator
- upgrade radiator and water pump
- upgrade ignition spark plugs, wires and distributor
- high compression pistons and piston rings
- connecting rods
- lighter flywheel
- lighter cam gears and pulleys
- exaust line
- intake line (air filter + manifold)
and so on...


Can you help me?

thanks
 

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You gonne spend so much money to get to your objective.. and I dont think it possible to get 200 hp N/A with a ZC..

for the same amount of money you can get 350whp with a turbo.

if you want absolutley be NA. just swap an other Engine
 

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Don't say that. Come one give the guy credit for having the balls to want to step up and do this. I got my most recent Super Street and I was blown away to see a 1985 Spoon EA-T ZC non turbo making 230 hp at 9800 rpms. I would try to grab that Magazine and look for details but the truth is you will have to spin the bitch so there will be a lot of work. Your other problem is that you are going to have be careful with your cam choice as you may push the power curve so far to the right that you will not be able to drive it. What I mean is your looking at the HP number instead of the torque and 90% of daily driven cars are drove between 2k and 4k.

The truth is you can make 200hp NA. However you would make alot more and cost you alot less with a turbo. I do not blame you for wanting to be different. I was going to build a NA ITB big cam MoFo until I realized for half of what NA was going to cost I could match its output plus another 50hp with a turbo and be completely drivable on the street.

The answer is yes but a turbo is more cost effective and probably more logical.

However a DOHC ZC that makes 200hp NA is way sexier.
 

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97 honda coupe
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I give credit to anyone who wants to go N/A but i do however belive that if you go N/A with d-series your are trying to do something just because you can, not because its the "best" setup. N/A it goes like this. K>B>F/H>D
 

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racist-bigot-sexist-homophob
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Discussion Starter #10
I understand your opinion, but in Portugal turbo it's not legal and engine swap is legally very expensive. And I don't want problems with the police.

So, the project is to go foward!
The target is 200hp and a lot of torque! I know, 200hp it's juts a number, but will be the a reference to my project.

My deep doubts are in the cam choice, I don't know if I should buy an existing model or adapt a model to my engine in a proper shop.

Other point is: the NA projects are made by little details, because they make the diference. And I'm a fried I forgetting essencial details!

So I need same opinions based on your experience, about witch hardware chose!
 

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91 CRX Si
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T:devil:hat's interesting I would like to see those pages; I was waiting for a build like this for a long time. I have a D16a9 and for my the swap it'snot a option.


Don't say that. Come one give the guy credit for having the balls to want to step up and do this. I got my most recent Super Street and I was blown away to see a 1985 Spoon EA-T ZC non turbo making 230 hp at 9800 rpms. I would try to grab that Magazine and look for details but the truth is you will have to spin the bitch so there will be a lot of work. Your other problem is that you are going to have be careful with your cam choice as you may push the power curve so far to the right that you will not be able to drive it. What I mean is your looking at the HP number instead of the torque and 90% of daily driven cars are drove between 2k and 4k.

The truth is you can make 200hp NA. However you would make alot more and cost you alot less with a turbo. I do not blame you for wanting to be different. I was going to build a NA ITB big cam MoFo until I realized for half of what NA was going to cost I could match its output plus another 50hp with a turbo and be completely drivable on the street.

The answer is yes but a turbo is more cost effective and probably more logical.

However a DOHC ZC that makes 200hp NA is way sexier.
 

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If I had a scanner I would send them to you. However I do not. I can type its parts list which is not that extensive. I do see a problem with your theory on your build and that is that you are looking for big torque number and 200hp. Hp is a derivative of torque and by definition it is hard to have both. I will try to explain. Look at any dyno that shows both hp and torque. If the hp and torque numbers do not cross at 5252 rpms it is bogus. The reason is by definition. To make power on a small displacement motor you have to boost or spin the shit out of it. When you spin the shit out of it you are moving the curve to the right which puts you past the 5252 mark meaning it will be hard to drive on the street (you lose torque).

The best way to do this would be to stroke to at least 1.8 and keep the cams mild (272, 272). Compression is going to depend on the gas availability. A good rule of thumb is to set the redline 500-700 after peak hp. Your going to have to find someone that knows a thing or two about that head and be able to give you a good head job (ha ha right) for street use.

Will this be your daily or track car only? Hope this helps.
 

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()*#$(*$
93 Legend L Coupe.
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It's not that hard, but it takes time. For the DOHC, the biggest issue is the head and the stock pistons. The ports ont he DOHC are actually a bit large. You will need to fill the short side radius a good amount and the bottom of the port, then raise the port by at least 5mm. This will give you the ability to improve flow and get more power and torque out of the head withou thaving to spin it too high, as the ball and socket valvetrain does not like to be spun above ~8500RPM. You will also have to raise the ports on the exhaust side, and that will cost money as you will need to have the port floors welded, then the whole head stress relieved and everything of note will have to be checked to make sure the head is straight. Then, take off ~2.8mm from the head. Aquire a custom .035" MLS-headgasket (from cometic). For that much power, I would actually recomend +1mm valves, especially Supertech's coated valves, bronze guides, and getting some good info on valve seat angles. For the cams, I would probably go with custom Bisi 2.2+ cams, maybe even level 3s or Level Xs, depending on how wild you can get if you still need to pass emissions tests. The next big thing is the piston selection. No OEM piston is going to get you the combustion characteristics you will need to make that much power. I would recomend the Endyn Rollerwave high-domes. I would also talk to Larry about having custom gas porting done to the pistons to achieve excellent ring seal. Any aftermarket rod should do. For this kind of build, I would spec out the crank bearngs to correct all the journals to .0015" (.0381mm) clearance. Modify an oil pump. Baffle the pan. Run an efficient crankcase ventilation system. Possibly post the block. Get a custom long-primary 4-1 header with a properly designed venturi-style collector into a 2.5" exhaust sytem that uses straight through mufflers and a high-flow cat. You will need an aftermarket ignition system and ECU. I would run VEMS or TECIII or somethinf of that sort, so you'd have to fab up crank and cam position sensors. You will eliminate the distributor, have precise ignition and fuel timing, and in general have much more control over the tune of the engine than a chipped stock ecu. No, the stock ECU is not adequate for this knd of endeavor, IMO, nor is any OEM based ECU as they are not precise enough to allow you to tune an engine built this way to the power levels you will want to obtain.

Its not THAT hard to do . . . It just requires a lot of custom work and time.
 

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it's not that hard, but it takes time. For the dohc, the biggest issue is the head and the stock pistons. The ports ont he dohc are actually a bit large. You will need to fill the short side radius a good amount and the bottom of the port, then raise the port by at least 5mm. This will give you the ability to improve flow and get more power and torque out of the head withou thaving to spin it too high, as the ball and socket valvetrain does not like to be spun above ~8500rpm. You will also have to raise the ports on the exhaust side, and that will cost money as you will need to have the port floors welded, then the whole head stress relieved and everything of note will have to be checked to make sure the head is straight. Then, take off ~2.8mm from the head. Aquire a custom .035" mls-headgasket (from cometic). For that much power, i would actually recomend +1mm valves, especially supertech's coated valves, bronze guides, and getting some good info on valve seat angles. For the cams, i would probably go with custom bisi 2.2+ cams, maybe even level 3s or level xs, depending on how wild you can get if you still need to pass emissions tests. The next big thing is the piston selection. No oem piston is going to get you the combustion characteristics you will need to make that much power. I would recomend the endyn rollerwave high-domes. I would also talk to larry about having custom gas porting done to the pistons to achieve excellent ring seal. Any aftermarket rod should do. For this kind of build, i would spec out the crank bearngs to correct all the journals to .0015" (.0381mm) clearance. Modify an oil pump. Baffle the pan. Run an efficient crankcase ventilation system. Possibly post the block. Get a custom long-primary 4-1 header with a properly designed venturi-style collector into a 2.5" exhaust sytem that uses straight through mufflers and a high-flow cat. You will need an aftermarket ignition system and ecu. I would run vems or teciii or somethinf of that sort, so you'd have to fab up crank and cam position sensors. You will eliminate the distributor, have precise ignition and fuel timing, and in general have much more control over the tune of the engine than a chipped stock ecu. No, the stock ecu is not adequate for this knd of endeavor, imo, nor is any oem based ecu as they are not precise enough to allow you to tune an engine built this way to the power levels you will want to obtain.

Its not that hard to do . . . It just requires a lot of custom work and time.
now that is an answer!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

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The extra displacement would make it a lot easier if you can. I am a Toyota fan but a 1.6 liter is a 1.6 liter. I know how to make 200hp on a NA 4AGE but not so with the ZC. The tuning is similar from one make to another (except 4AGE will spin happily past 8500 :)) I will say what acid beaver said sounds good in all but I can't verify it. I am sure what he referencing is closing up the valve angle. In the mid 80's a wide angle head was thought to be best but they were wrong. Ideal is between 25 and 35 degrees.

To make a long story short this is going to take some creativity and you may have to throw the whole bag at it. I am talking offset grinding crank, custom pistons, top secret head work, 4-1 header with purpose length primaries, plutonium reactors, side mounted 50 cal machine guns, stripper pole, several hits of high grade acid (not that bullshit made from morning glories), and even sexual identity crisis (yes I stand in front of my bathroom mirror and pretend I drive a Neon).

Seriously bro you have balls (not the ones Italians have, wait they have them???) for trying this. I applaud you with all the BS aside. It is possible but it is going to take some work and not simple bolt-ons. I am talking elbows deep in your pockets to get this shit done. However once you are done this will be pimptastic. Good luck.
 

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93 Legend L Coupe.
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You don't have to go crazy with the crank if you sleeved it and went with the 78mm Rollerwaves. That would be pretty f'ing awesome and what I was going to do until I decided that I wanted more displacement in the form of an F2D swap.
 

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It's not that hard, but it takes time. For the DOHC, the biggest issue is the head and the stock pistons. The ports ont he DOHC are actually a bit large. You will need to fill the short side radius a good amount and the bottom of the port, then raise the port by at least 5mm. This will give you the ability to improve flow and get more power and torque out of the head withou thaving to spin it too high, as the ball and socket valvetrain does not like to be spun above ~8500RPM. You will also have to raise the ports on the exhaust side, and that will cost money as you will need to have the port floors welded, then the whole head stress relieved and everything of note will have to be checked to make sure the head is straight. Then, take off ~2.8mm from the head. Aquire a custom .035" MLS-headgasket (from cometic). For that much power, I would actually recomend +1mm valves, especially Supertech's coated valves, bronze guides, and getting some good info on valve seat angles. For the cams, I would probably go with custom Bisi 2.2+ cams, maybe even level 3s or Level Xs, depending on how wild you can get if you still need to pass emissions tests. The next big thing is the piston selection. No OEM piston is going to get you the combustion characteristics you will need to make that much power. I would recomend the Endyn Rollerwave high-domes. I would also talk to Larry about having custom gas porting done to the pistons to achieve excellent ring seal. Any aftermarket rod should do. For this kind of build, I would spec out the crank bearngs to correct all the journals to .0015" (.0381mm) clearance. Modify an oil pump. Baffle the pan. Run an efficient crankcase ventilation system. Possibly post the block. Get a custom long-primary 4-1 header with a properly designed venturi-style collector into a 2.5" exhaust sytem that uses straight through mufflers and a high-flow cat. You will need an aftermarket ignition system and ECU. I would run VEMS or TECIII or somethinf of that sort, so you'd have to fab up crank and cam position sensors. You will eliminate the distributor, have precise ignition and fuel timing, and in general have much more control over the tune of the engine than a chipped stock ecu. No, the stock ECU is not adequate for this knd of endeavor, IMO, nor is any OEM based ECU as they are not precise enough to allow you to tune an engine built this way to the power levels you will want to obtain.

Its not THAT hard to do . . . It just requires a lot of custom work and time.
As i read that all i could see in my head is dollar sign after dollar sign. It's all true though, i contemplated the same build with my DOHC ZC and after i started adding up the cost i decided to go turbo. Even though it would have been sexy and unique i doubt it would have been a great dd engine.
 
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