Honda D Series Forum banner

1 - 20 of 35 Posts

·
Meat Popsicle
Joined
·
2,918 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Yesterday I talked to Geoff from colt cams and he mentioned that there are actually two d16a6 cams. He said the only way to identify which core I have would be to install it in my engine and check the timing.

Is this true? I’ve never heard of two different a6 cams.
 

·
Brokedick Millionaire
Joined
·
40,226 Posts

·
Meat Popsicle
Joined
·
2,918 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
Thanks bone. The problem I have is that I have 3 A6 cams which are out of the car and I don’t know what year engine they’re from. The cam I’m currently running in my A6 is a web regrind.

So it seems like swapping one of the cams in and checking the timing is the only way to verify.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Seems to me that the teeth of the cam gear should line up differently with the keyway between the two models of cam. Maybe someone who has a known of each could show what the relationship between keyway, cam gear teeth and #1cylinder lobes looks like for each type. Some close photos showing which is which would be very useful.

I speak here as someone looking for an 88 specific cam and trying to find a way to visually identify them.

It’s possible you will have to put a cam gear onto the cam and look at the relationship between teeth, keyway and lobes, and you will need to know up front which cam gear you are using to do it with. Makes sense that it SHOULD be possible to tell without installing...
 

·
Brokedick Millionaire
Joined
·
40,226 Posts
88-95 all use the same cam gear....only way to ever tell will be with a cam doctor setup.

Install it, tune with cam gear for the powerband you want.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Ah. My mistake. I took some of the threads to imply that the cam lobe position relative to the keyway had to differ to explain the 1/2 tooth difference between some d-series engines, and assumed as a result that if the 88 d16a6 cam aligned with a d15b7, but the 89-91 d16a6 cam did not, that they must use different cam gears or else they would never align correctly.

Sad now. ��
 

·
Brokedick Millionaire
Joined
·
40,226 Posts
88 keyway indexing is different, on the D15 position, but with it being an updated part it should be fine.

Heck the FSM lists D16 cam specs, so in theory that makes it legal in ITB and ITC classes. I know a few have tried but the cam timing difference made it a PITA.

Just make sure you have your axle dampers installed :)

 

·
Meat Popsicle
Joined
·
2,918 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
So I have 3 A6 cams, I need to send one off for a regrind, but I'm not sure how they are indexed.

As I understand, short of swapping the cams into my A6 engine, there's no way to know what is what.


If I just pick one and send it off, the worst case scenario is that the timing would be off but I could adjust it with my adjustable cam gear. Yes?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
That sounds like you have the correct info - I've read this thread a couple times and I'm picking up on the same - so if you're wrong it would be understandable!

Following the verbage of Bone, its only the indexing that is different and an adjustable gear would solve that problem.

Yes?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
I have to disagree about the updated part- the 88 d16 cam has NOT been updated or superseded by Honda. I’ve even called Honda corporate to try and get them to formally update the old number with the updated 89-91 part... of course, they were completely uninterested in helping...

Fortunately, the axle dampers thing has died down to allow common sense, as has the block serial number stamping thing from a couple years back... STS seems to have calmed down a bit, with more focus on fun these days. Made nationals MUCH more pleasant last week... ��

Leftbrained- sounds like it. If only that was legal for STS! I’d be set! Alas, it isn’t legal for where I’m racing, so I have to find the more limiting solution...
 

·
Brokedick Millionaire
Joined
·
40,226 Posts
I have to disagree about the updated part- the 88 d16 cam has NOT been updated or superseded by Honda. I’ve even called Honda corporate to try and get them to formally update the old number with the updated 89-91 part... of course, they were completely uninterested in helping...

Fortunately, the axle dampers thing has died down to allow common sense, as has the block serial number stamping thing from a couple years back... STS seems to have calmed down a bit, with more focus on fun these days. Made nationals MUCH more pleasant last week... ��
Both numbers are now NLA in the system, just like the shifter forks.

I'm sure you're aware of "The Sandbox" correct?

Common Sense in SCCA cone killing? One might find the 88 cam to have a better midrange power on tighter courses at local events, but at the wide open flowing Nationals courses, maybe not so much.

So how was the Bonneville Salt Flats of Nebraska last week? LOL!

:3dbiggrin:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
It was quite nice, actually! No monsoon this year, and the temps were not always horrible. We ran first run group, which was a big plus for the Yokohamas...

Request clarification: NLA = no longer available, right? Alas, that isn’t enough to be legal. There is an allowance for substituting for no longer available parts, but it specifically does NOT allow new parts with better performance, which 108 vs 105hp tells me the 89+ cam has... I have learned the rules better then ever of late, having joined the STAC a couple mo this ago.

I am aware of the sandbox. I don’t go there much- a little toxic for my taste. The street tire thread IS entertaining, tho...
 

·
Brokedick Millionaire
Joined
·
40,226 Posts
Per Hollis the 89-91 became the updated part number as a replacement.

Next time I'm at the dealership I'll have my guy run the part numbers.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
I hope Hollis is right. I couldn’t get that answer from 2 different dealerships here in Omaha and Honda corporate when I contacted them. The dealerships found nothing, and corporate tried to tell me there was a TSB addressing it, which the dealerships couldn’t find.
 

·
Brokedick Millionaire
Joined
·
40,226 Posts
Honda eStore....

1988 part number, 14111-PM6-A00
1989-1991, number not listed, that usually means NLA

HondaPartsDeals

1990-1991 part number, 14111-PM6-A10

Honda Civic 4AT 4WD 5D 1989, 1990, 1991
Honda Civic 4AT EX 4D 1990, 1991
Honda Civic 5MT 4WD 5D 1989, 1990, 1991
Honda Civic 5MT EX 4D 1990, 1991
Honda Civic 5MT SI 3D 1989, 1990, 1991
Honda CRX 5MT SI 1989, 1990, 1991


I used to have access to HondaEPC but they greatly tightened up the security of the system

But still digging, I find the A10 updated part number....

https://parts.sonshonda.com/products/Honda/CAMSHAFT/1476918/14111-PR2-000.html

Part Number: 14111-PR2-000
Supersession(s): 14111-PM6-A10; 14111PM6A10
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Yup, yup, yup. All those numbers look very familiar, with a glaring exception- A00 for the 88s... as far as I’ve found there is NO legal option other than an original 88 cam if you have an 88 CRX Si... hence my irritation with Honda...

Exception in the super session line, anyway- I reread your post and noticed the first line. My bad.

Unfortunately, doesn’t change the situation. I wish it did... my stress level would go way down.
 

·
Meat Popsicle
Joined
·
2,918 Posts
Discussion Starter #20 (Edited)
Bone, do you know what the timing difference is between the two?

In other words, if I end up with an 88 cam that’s indexed differently, how much would I need to advance/retard the cam gear to make it right?

Sorry to be asked to be spoon fed...

I’m also trying to understand how I’d tell the difference between the two cams even after installing them. I imagine I’d have to use a degree wheel to tell which is which?

Or is there a way to tell by looking at the position of the distributor slot?
 
1 - 20 of 35 Posts
Top