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Discussion Starter · #21 ·
Dude, I'm so sorry I must have been smoking crack...

I literally thought your thread title said 335whp at 16psi!

Forget everything I've said so far lmao.

Ok, coming down off my crackpipe, again I apologize, lets re-discuss things.

235whp at 16psi, on your turbo, with your manifold and downpipe size. Yeah, something else is going on. With my stock Y8 cam on Engine V1 (vitaras with long rod, about 8.8:1, no port matching, same crappy exhaust mani), I made 250-260ish whp at about 15psi with my same turbo, so I'd expect you to be around the same at 16psi with your turbo.

And your tuner said adding timing and boost didn't make the engine respond then huh? As @Soul Engineering said, definitely check for boost leaks and other manifold leaks.

  • What is your mechanical cam timing set to? Stock? What about base ignition timing?
  • What do your cold and warm compression readings say?
  • What is valve lash set to cold?
  • Is VTEC engaging, and engine feels like it runs smoothly when it engages?
  • No pushing coolant or similar under boost?
  • Could wastegate be stuck open, or unable to vent the top chamber effectively? What frequency/duty cycle is being used to control the wastegate with the MAC solenoid?
  • Your camshaft, do you know how much baked in overlap it has in VTEC?
    • I tried finding specs for it, it doesn't say the 105300 is a turbo specific camshaft. Do you have cam card for it? Pics?
    • Curious if its an N/A specific grind. If it is, it will have a lot of overlap in VTEC, so in boost, you'll be blowing all your charge air out the tail pipe! Need to verify overlap based on cam card info.
Off the top of my head, these are the things that come to mind to check.

I hope the dyno operator set the dyno up correctly as well lol... just one other thing to be aware of! If they got the setup wrong, then it will be calculating whp incorrectly. But by the way you describe this guy, he's used it a bunch and that shouldn't be an issue...
Cam timing is 1* advanced and Ill have to check the base timing another day since it was set by the tuner after they played with cam timing.
Gonna do a compression test soon and I've read that around 150psi is good for low comp vitaras
Setting valve lash was a little weird and I did it twice to make sure and If I remember correctly I aimed for .007 intake and .009 exhaust. I'll double check it as well when I get the chance.
VTEC engages and runs strong.
No coolant pushing or anything after multiple rips.
Wastegate works fine and where it vents all the runners have just become one big "collector" It's and SPA Turbo Top mount if you want to get a better idea of how it looks inside. Duty cycle is set to 75% and frequency is at 33
I wanted to get the BC Stage 2 Forced Iduction Cam but, they were out of supply and I would've had to wait months at the time. I've seen people recommend this cam on the forums before so I just went with it.

Cam Specs from comp cams site:
Advertised Intake Duration:260
Advertised Exhaust Duration:268
Intake Duration at .050 Inch Lift:220
Exhaust Duration at .050 Inch Lift:216
Intake Valve Lift:0.455
Exhaust Valve Lift:0.43
Lobe Lift Intake:0
Lobe Lift Exhaust:0
Intake Centerline:111
Exhaust Close ATDC:0
Intake Open BTDC:0
Exhaust Open BBDC:0
Intake Close ABDC:0

Cam timing is 1* advanced and Ill have to check the base timing another day since it was set by the tuner after they played with cam timing.
Gonna do a compression test soon and I've read that around 150psi is good for low comp vitaras
Setting valve lash was a little weird and I did it twice to make sure and If I remember correctly I aimed for .007 intake and .009 exhaust. I'll double check it as well when I get the chance.
VTEC engages and runs strong.
No coolant pushing or anything after multiple rips.
Wastegate works fine and where it vents all the runners have just become one big "collector" It's and SPA Turbo Top mount if you want to get a better idea of how it looks inside. Duty cycle is set to 75% and frequency is at 33
I wanted to get the BC Stage 2 Forced Iduction Cam but, they were out of supply and I would've had to wait months at the time. I've seen people recommend this cam on the forums before so I just went with it.

Cam Specs from comp cams site:
Advertised Intake Duration:260
Advertised Exhaust Duration:268
Intake Duration at .050 Inch Lift:220
Exhaust Duration at .050 Inch Lift:216
Intake Valve Lift:0.455
Exhaust Valve Lift:0.43
Lobe Lift Intake:0
Lobe Lift Exhaust:0
Intake Centerline:111
Exhaust Close ATDC:0
Intake Open BTDC:0
Exhaust Open BBDC:0
Intake Close ABDC:0
Will also be checking for boost leaks when I do all the other checks on the car. A new intake and exhaust manifold gasket will follow just bc I want to replace both anyway.

Runs good and definitely pulls good but, I built the car with the 350-400whp goal in mind and if somethings wrong with the car I want to fix it and get it where I've always wanted it to be. Yea a number doesn't mean anything but, if this is what 235 feels like 350-400 is gonna be fantastic!
I was also thinking the code 9 could've done something else and asked the tuner if its worth it to try and swap for a new dizzy but he said that it wouldn't be causing the power loss.
 

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Sloppy Jalopy
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Cam timing is 1* advanced and Ill have to check the base timing another day since it was set by the tuner after they played with cam timing.
Gonna do a compression test soon and I've read that around 150psi is good for low comp vitaras
Setting valve lash was a little weird and I did it twice to make sure and If I remember correctly I aimed for .007 intake and .009 exhaust. I'll double check it as well when I get the chance.
VTEC engages and runs strong.
No coolant pushing or anything after multiple rips.
Wastegate works fine and where it vents all the runners have just become one big "collector" It's and SPA Turbo Top mount if you want to get a better idea of how it looks inside. Duty cycle is set to 75% and frequency is at 33
I wanted to get the BC Stage 2 Forced Iduction Cam but, they were out of supply and I would've had to wait months at the time. I've seen people recommend this cam on the forums before so I just went with it.

Cam Specs from comp cams site:
Advertised Intake Duration:260
Advertised Exhaust Duration:268
Intake Duration at .050 Inch Lift:220
Exhaust Duration at .050 Inch Lift:216
Intake Valve Lift:0.455
Exhaust Valve Lift:0.43
Lobe Lift Intake:0
Lobe Lift Exhaust:0
Intake Centerline:111
Exhaust Close ATDC:0
Intake Open BTDC:0
Exhaust Open BBDC:0
Intake Close ABDC:0
not the problem but
I would go a little looser on the valve lash .just me.


spit ball ,Y8 VMS Variable Cam Gear ?are you positive it's the one for a y8?
 

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Discussion Starter · #24 ·
Did a compression test and boost leak test and here are the results:
Cyl 1 ~150psi
Cyl 2 ~150psi
Cyl 3 ~145psi
Cyl 4 ~150psi

So those all are within good enough to not lose 70whp I would think.

Boost leak test brought 2 leaks to light at some couplers and they were pretty significant. Both were before the MAP sensor so they wouldn't cause a power loss since its always read 16-17psi. Got them all fixed and expected the car to over boost since boost cut is set to 18psi and the controller is set to make 16-17psi. All the way to limiter in 2nd and then wound it out far in 3rd multiple times no boost cut. I thought that after fixing these I was gonna feel the car slam on its face right away.
Could be leaking before this point but, since the couplers are all straight and even I wouldn't think so. The ones that leaked are a weird angle and the other is too big so it doesn't fit right so those 2 were the prime suspects for leaks. Later this week I'll try and see if I can test from where the turbo connects.
Automotive tire Motor vehicle Asphalt Vehicle Bumper
 

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If you fixed boost leaks and suspect more, it will need more tuning. Surprised the tuner didn't check for boost leaks. Have you checked to see how freely the turbo spins by hand? Or to see if there is any shaft play.

But yes, you need to pull timing out of that tune, because once you do find the issue, fix it and then go for a rip, it might pop the head gasket, or do bottom end damage.
 

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93 4d lx, z6,ported, port matched, compression bumped, balanced, manual swap
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This sounds like an exhaust restriction to me, like there are large chunks of casting flash left in a runner of the exhaust manifold, or the ports are a bit small/off center, or even could be in the turbine housing or wastegate itself.
With the std rod/vitara setup I would expect to see no less than 290 and probably closer to what you were expecting as well 300-315.
 

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or the ports are a bit small/off center,
This!

With Engine V1 I just slapped the manifold on there, and went. The stainless gasket I used had ports smaller than both head/manifold holes too lol.

With Engine V2 I took the time to port match, and found that the crappy cast manifold basically constructed a few 1/4" solid walls of restriction. All the runners had a wall that looked like this:

Jaw Bicycle part Gas Jewellery Helmet
 

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Discussion Starter · #29 ·
If you fixed boost leaks and suspect more, it will need more tuning. Surprised the tuner didn't check for boost leaks. Have you checked to see how freely the turbo spins by hand? Or to see if there is any shaft play.

But yes, you need to pull timing out of that tune, because once you do find the issue, fix it and then go for a rip, it might pop the head gasket, or do bottom end damage.
No shaft play on the turbo and it spins nice and free with no smoke coming out of the exhaust either. Yea I’ll talk to the tuner once I think I have the issue solved and have him remote tune to make sure it’s safe.

This!

With Engine V1 I just slapped the manifold on there, and went. The stainless gasket I used had ports smaller than both head/manifold holes too lol.

With Engine V2 I took the time to port match, and found that the crappy cast manifold basically constructed a few 1/4" solid walls of restriction. All the runners had a wall that looked like this:

View attachment 141714
I will pull apart the whole exhaust system this weekend and make sure that everything is flowing as it should. The tuner also said that it could be from the cast manifold not flowing like a tubular one but I’ve seen plenty of people making better power on worse manifold designs.

This sounds like an exhaust restriction to me, like there are large chunks of casting flash left in a runner of the exhaust manifold, or the ports are a bit small/off center, or even could be in the turbine housing or wastegate itself.
With the std rod/vitara setup I would expect to see no less than 290 and probably closer to what you were expecting as well 300-315.
When I got the manifold nothing seemed blatantly wrong but like I said I’ll pull it all off soon and verify. Me, the tuner, and another guy at the shop all expected the car to make closer to 300 so I think something is definitely holding it back.
 

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93 4d lx, z6,ported, port matched, compression bumped, balanced, manual swap
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Your manifold design isn't terrible or even bad for your goals, but quality control has been atrocious the last few years, cant take anything for granted, even once good brands that were finished and massaged well previously are now pretty much junk out of the box and need some love before installation. I recently put a new cast manifold setup on a b18c3, it came with 2 runners 80% blocked with walls of casting flash deep in the 1 and 4 runners, had I not taken my brass brushes to it first just in case I'd have never seen the issue.
 

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Discussion Starter · #32 ·
Your manifold design isn't terrible or even bad for your goals, but quality control has been atrocious the last few years, cant take anything for granted, even once good brands that were finished and massaged well previously are now pretty much junk out of the box and need some love before installation. I recently put a new cast manifold setup on a b18c3, it came with 2 runners 80% blocked with walls of casting flash deep in the 1 and 4 runners, had I not taken my brass brushes to it first just in case I'd have never seen the issue.
Yea I will definitely be pulling it all off this weekend and looking over everything to make sure no funny business like that is hiding in there.

Is that a mesh on the turbo inlet ?
It’s just screen for like a pool cage
 

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I saw a very similar problem on YouTube where there was a shop rag in the charge pipe near the intercooler. Almost sounds like a restriction somewhere I'd think with that setup and boost level you should be making 325 no sweat. I run an OBD2 distributor on a OBD1 P07 without any problem with the only upgrade being an Accel Supercoil. Restriction or base timing/timing tables off seems most likely but weirder things have happened. Hope you work it out man.
 

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Discussion Starter · #36 ·
I saw a very similar problem on YouTube where there was a shop rag in the charge pipe near the intercooler. Almost sounds like a restriction somewhere I'd think with that setup and boost level you should be making 325 no sweat. I run an OBD2 distributor on a OBD1 P07 without any problem with the only upgrade being an Accel Supercoil. Restriction or base timing/timing tables off seems most likely but weirder things have happened. Hope you work it out man.
Thanks man I swapped the intercooler before the dyno and it was free and clear so should be ok there. Something is holding it up for sure and I’m gonna do everything I can to get my rightful power. Can’t let these mustangs have it easy any longer!
 

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Thanks man I swapped the intercooler before the dyno and it was free and clear so should be ok there. Something is holding it up for sure and I’m gonna do everything I can to get my rightful power. Can’t let these mustangs have it easy any longer!
No take em down ! In Mexico or a dragstrip,of course :censored: . I mean if your MAP is reading that much boost then that kinda rules out any charge pipe or intercooler restriction. I'd be curious to see your timing tables. I wonder if the VMS gear is causing you problems. Some of their products are very good while others are hit or miss. What is your base timing set at ?
 
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