Honda D Series Forum banner
1 - 17 of 17 Posts

· Registered
Joined
·
40 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Good Day,
Had a thought a few days ago, but haven't been able to find 'Hard' evidence that it's possible or has been done..
Can I install an OEM, 'Y8 Knock Sensor and wire it in as an Input, using it to my advantage (exactly as the 'Y8 does)?
ECU is a Chipped P06, and HTS will be the Software in use, obviously OBD1.
I'd like to monitor Knock, without giant headphones and Stethoscopes running from my Hood/Front windows..

Kind Regards,
-Dustin
 

· Registered
93 Civic HB SI, 95 Civic HB CX
Joined
·
2,830 Posts
The stock OBD1 knock sensors are terrible wired in as part of normal ECU knock control strategy. Its why most tuners remove/disable them in the software before tuning, they are tempermental.

They'll cause the ECU to retard timing for the dumbest noises that can just be part of normal operation.

Just load up the Y7 basemap, run good quality 93, and adjust timing curves from there, checking plugs regularly. You wont have issues on 93 even at your comp ratio increase with stock Y7 curves.

For power gains beyond Y7 map, compare your map to other stock performance oriented Honda maps and their base timing curves, both in and out of VTEC, to give you ideas on what is relatively safe.

Check out the Y8 non VTEC and VTEC timing curves. Those are a great starting point for peak timing/RPM to blend into your Y7 non-VTEC map. You should be able to go 1-2 degrees higher than the stock Y8 curves without much fuss on 93.

You also shouldnt run into knock on 93 staying close to the Y8 peak timing/RPM realm, so long as your IATs are in check and you respect the curve, meaning dont throw 35 degrees at it at 1500rpm lol.

If you get it running good with Y8 realm levels, you can begin to look at B series timing curves. B series VTEC engine timing curves are more agressive, throwing more timing into the mix sooner and lower in the RPMs than our D series maps do.

The reason for this is architecture centric, D series use 75ishmm pistons, B series run 81ishmm pistons. Doesn't sound like a whole lot of difference, but the additional surface area of the piston allows for additional cylinder pressures to get the piston accelerating faster, and moving out of the way, in a shorter period of time. This trait helps prevent knock in comparison to the D architecture.

Compare B to D, and see where the timing begins to come in, comparatively speaking. Work your way up slowly, again keeping a close ear out, as well as reading plugs.

She should be a ripper, so long as you have a cam that can provide enough airflow.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
40 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Excellent response, hot damn there is hope in this world, HA!
Thank you, for taking the time to lay a few of those fundamental traits/B series comparisons. They will help, being as I have done some tuning on a B series platform, many moons ago.
I was worried the OBD1 platform's Knock sensor 'logic', was probably not as good as OBD2/later 90's Knock sensors, but all is well.

Your last line got me.. I am still on the Stock 'Y7 camshaft.
I've got Delta's contact info, so provided he/they are still Re-grinding these 'Y7 units, I will have one of them to incorporate.

Still need to research the 'Good' Adjustable Cam-gears, and make a quality selection in that department.

Thanks again!
 

· Registered
93 Civic HB SI, 95 Civic HB CX
Joined
·
2,830 Posts
Still need to research the 'Good' Adjustable Cam-gears, and make a quality selection in that department.
Golden Eagle. Best dang cam gear for our SOHC engines at a heck of a competitive price. The GE gear has done great for me



It does double duty as well, they did their homework on this gear. One side of the toothed gear has timing marks for a Z6, pull the bolts out and flip the gear the other way, marks for a Y engine!

Automotive tire Motor vehicle Automotive exterior Engineering Gas


Automotive tire Motor vehicle Automotive design Engineering Gas


Stay FAR away from the AEM Tru Time stuff, lots of examples of breakage all over multiple forums.

My B series is getting a set of GE gears soon.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
40 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Golden Eagle. Best dang cam gear for our SOHC engines at a heck of a competitive price. The GE gear has done great for me



It does double duty as well, they did their homework on this gear. One side of the toothed gear has timing marks for a Z6, pull the bolts out and flip the gear the other way, marks for a Y engine!

View attachment 143841

View attachment 143842

Stay FAR away from the AEM Tru Time stuff, lots of examples of breakage all over multiple forums.

My B series is getting a set of GE gears soon.
Looking at Golden Eagle's site, that gear (P/N GSC103); Doesn't specifically say D16Y7, but lists the 'Y8..
Are they, same same?

Glad GE makes a Good, Proper Adjustable gear. They really know their stuff.
I have their Sandwich plate, and its le tits. and, outputs FILTERED Oil, Perfect.
 

· Registered
93 Civic HB SI, 95 Civic HB CX
Joined
·
2,830 Posts
Looking at Golden Eagle's site, that gear (P/N GSC103); Doesn't specifically say D16Y7, but lists the 'Y8..
Are they, same same?
You time a Y7 and Y8 in the same manner, marks on the gear will align flush with the surface of the cylinder head, where the valve cover gasket mates with the aluminum lip.

Your stock Y7 gear looks like this right?

Eye Wheel Font Handwriting Triangle



If so, that GE gear will work.
 

· Registered
93 Civic HB SI, 95 Civic HB CX
Joined
·
2,830 Posts
You'll also need a B series cam gear woodruff key for almost all D series aftermarket cam gears, literally no one ever tells you that lmao.

The key is made as part of the OEM gear, but is just a groove in aftermarket gears.

Here's what you'll need:

 

· Registered
93 4d lx, z6,ported, port matched, compression bumped, balanced, manual swap
Joined
·
1,629 Posts
Good Day,
Had a thought a few days ago, but haven't been able to find 'Hard' evidence that it's possible or has been done..
Can I install an OEM, 'Y8 Knock Sensor and wire it in as an Input, using it to my advantage (exactly as the 'Y8 does)?
ECU is a Chipped P06, and HTS will be the Software in use, obviously OBD1.
I'd like to monitor Knock, without giant headphones and Stethoscopes running from my Hood/Front windows..

Kind Regards,
-Dustin
Long ago, 99-01-ish a buddy of mine designed a little noise filter for knock sensors that had 3 little potentiometers on it, you could dial them in and filter out normal engine noises, made very nice 5-8 hp gains on just about any knock controlled engine, though we did blow a a few head gaskets and melt a valve or 2 dialing them in.
Stay FAR away from the AEM Tru Time stuff, lots of examples of breakage all over multiple forums.
Mines about to pass 200,000 miles of daily duty with my lead foot, still looks like new, with no indicators of potential failure. granted it's on stock z6 springs and cam. But I think more often than not, improper torque, wildly aggressive cams, poor maintenance habits, needlessly stiff springs, or badly done forgeries are the reasons we so many of the AEMs fail.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
40 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
You'll also need a B series cam gear woodruff key for almost all D series aftermarket cam gears, literally no one ever tells you that lmao.

The key is made as part of the OEM gear, but is just a groove in aftermarket gears.

Here's what you'll need:

HUGEEE, This is great info.
Honestly surprised GE doesn’t send one with the gear, but no harm no foul, now that I am aware!
 

· Registered
Joined
·
40 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Long ago, 99-01-ish a buddy of mine designed a little noise filter for knock sensors that had 3 little potentiometers on it, you could dial them in and filter out normal engine noises, made very nice 5-8 hp gains on just about any knock controlled engine, though we did blow a a few head gaskets and melt a valve or 2 dialing them in.
That’s a good idea, even in application.
The learning road to get there, didn’t sound too pleasant lol, but hey knowledge is Power.
I used a potentiometer on a Fuel Tank Pressure sensor circuit (Later 3rd Gen. Integra).
ECU was from a ‘99, in a ‘97 chassis (I.e. no Fuel tank pressure sensor).
Wired it to that ECU pin, and would simply ‘adjust’ it until the equivalent voltage was shown, that a sensor would be inputting.
Worked like a charm, and I passed emissions, woot!
 

· Registered
Joined
·
40 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
You time a Y7 and Y8 in the same manner, marks on the gear will align flush with the surface of the cylinder head, where the valve cover gasket mates with the aluminum lip.

Your stock Y7 gear looks like this right?

View attachment 143843


If so, that GE gear will work.
You are correct sir, staring at that page in my FSM as we speak.
 

· Registered
93 Civic HB SI, 95 Civic HB CX
Joined
·
2,830 Posts
These might be BC cam gear........
Yes thats BC :)
Wheel Automotive tire Gear Bicycle part Rim


GE has been either solid:
Wheel Automotive tire Black Gear Tire


Or straight and fat spoke:
Bicycle part Gear Bicycle Rim Bicycle drivetrain part


Nothing crazy or complex. I've never been a fan of fancy cam gear designs that take tons of material away from the drive hub area, or employ crazy designs that put odd stresses on the drive hub.

#KeepTheKISSMethod for critical rotating components lol
 

· Registered
Joined
·
40 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Haha, looks like an RC car wheel.
Thanks for all the input guys, it’s always good to know the bad apple(s), as well.

The GE Gears come with Stainless (18-8) bolts.
Anyone swap them for some Grade 8+ bolts?
Still a Socket-head cap screw, but Steel.
I always feel better for critical things, to be Grade 8/Class 10, especially when torquing them to a spec. (Whatever GE prescribes).
 

· Registered
93 Civic HB SI, 95 Civic HB CX
Joined
·
2,830 Posts
Haha, looks like an RC car wheel.
Thanks for all the input guys, it’s always good to know the bad apple(s), as well.

The GE Gears come with Stainless (18-8) bolts.
Anyone swap them for some Grade 8+ bolts?
Still a Socket-head cap screw, but Steel.
I always feel better for critical things, to be Grade 8/Class 10, especially when torquing them to a spec. (Whatever GE prescribes).
Its kinda hard to see on mine, but when I ordered my GE gear the picture also showed hex cap screws. But I was plesantly surprised when it arrived with grade 10.9 12pt flange head screws, and excellent quality nice thick washers:

Automotive tire Tire Wheel Motor vehicle Gear


I'm not sure what the deal was, but this is what I got in the mail with mine.

In either case, the gear is a unit. If mine ended up arriving with hex head cap screws and crappy washers, I'd personally head to the hardware store and upgrade the fasteners to exactly what I received for just a couple bucks for piece of mind.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
10,091 Posts
Just for my sake, please remove the spring for the timing pulley tensioner, and throw a piece of heatshrink or rubber hose onto it. Keeps that spring safer.
 
1 - 17 of 17 Posts
Top