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EG Hatch
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Discussion Starter #1
This car has been in the shop for over a week.. its kind of a long read but basically the car is getting no spark.

Customers car was driving down the street when they heard a "pop" and the car suddenly stalled. When I arrived, I noticed the fuel pump was not priming. I found that the fuel safety cut off switch had tripped. I reset it and the fuel pump started working but the car still would not start.

I towed to my shop and it has codes for CMP sensor circuit failure. I noticed the CKP sensor was totally cooked and falling a part. So, I replaced both of them.

The car also has a code for MAF sensor low voltage. I check for clogged air filter, cleaned the already impeccably clean MAF sensor.. no change.

Also getting a code for Bank 1 catalytic below efficiency. and bank 1 sensor 2 beyond maximum threshold.

A friend of mine with a Tiburon had the same issue with his CKP, ended up having to replace the toothed wheel that the sensor reads along with the sensor.. I don't understand how a toothed wheel inside the crank case could ever become damaged/need to be replaced but, if it happens, it happens.

I replaced the catalytic just because it needed one.. turns out the cat was completely gone...

So, I preplaced CKP, CMP sensors and bank 1 cat. No start. The coils are not producing any spark.

The coils are supposed to read .6ohms on the primary winding. They were all reading 2+ohms. The windings were rusty and bulging.. So I replaced them since the hot wire (green) going to them is reading battery voltage when the key is in the on position, as it's supposed to, and the service manual says to replace them if they are reading more resistance than they are supposed to.

Still no spark. What is going on?
 

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Classic Man
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Have you tried to clear the codes? Just curious.

Have you tried the old trick of connecting the two battery cables together for 10 minutes (without the battery connected of course lol) to see if it resets the ECM?


It might think its being stolen?
 

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EG Hatch
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Discussion Starter #4
crank sensor on this one is on the block behind the starter, reads off the flywheel. It was trashed, melted, shorted together and crumbling to dust. It was replaced.

I have not tried touching the cables together like that.. never heard of it.. will try it. Thanks guys.

But, I am now hoping that it is indeed thinking it's being stolen because I am completely out of ideas.

I have cleared the codes. The battery actually died and reset everything itself.. but, I'll try the ECM reset.
 

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Classic Man
Civic
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Ok so one more thought, revisit the crank sensor and verify the wiring and just the whole repair. The no spark thing screams crank sensor.

The toothed gear may have lost its ability to be magnetized which does happen. I forget the technical term for it... Maybe you can see if you can get a magnet in there and see if it sticks?
 

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EG Hatch
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Discussion Starter #6
Resetting the ECM did not work. I double checked the sensor..

I think the gear is no longer magnetic.. if that's what it is..
I was working on a friends Tiburon a couple years ago that had the same issue.. changed the sensor and it kind of worked up until 4k rpm then spark would cut out.. coils had already recently been replaced..
I told him to take it to the dealer cuz I was just working in the driveway at that point in time.. they said it was the wheel but I never got word on the how and why it was the wheel..

I'm guessing this is the same issue.

I pulled the plug on the car though.. told them to take it to the dealership..
just charged them for parts and lift time.. It's for a buddy of mine and it's his wife's car and she was getting out of hand.. becoming more of a hassle to deal with than it was worth to fix the car.. even if I never work on any of their cars again.. fuck. its not like I'd want to anyway. She failed to realize just how good of a deal I was giving them for all the work I had been doing.. I can understand how they were initially shocked when the bill was getting up there.. 890 up there.. but, it did come in with 6 codes on it. And 400 of that bill was just the parts cost of the catalytic converter and book time on that is 3.1 hours on top.. so it adds up quick.. living in Chicago suburbs we are the cheapest shop rate around at $65 an hour. The next cheapest is $80, that we know of.
 

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Classic Man
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Damn dude that is a super cheap rate... The place I am is $100 an hr and we are the one of the cheapest around most are $120, but then again its Canada and everything automotive is a bit more expensive.

Let us know what happens if they ever update you.
 

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EG Hatch
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Discussion Starter #9
The other shop said it was something to do with mechanical timing, I think... my buddy doesn't speak good English, has a hard time understanding words that he's not familiar with.. so.. what he got out of it is that it's apparently going to cost the same to swap the whole motor as it is to change this part.

The shop is saying that what I did is unrelated to the problem..
I'm having a hard time believing this side from the cat. It is obviously not related but it needed to be replaced and I asked him if he wanted me to do it and he agreed to the work..

I replaced the cam and crank because they had dtc's for them. I replaced the coil because it was getting battery voltage and the service manual says if it's getting battery voltage then check the resistance of the primary and secondary windings. If they're above 1ohm then replace/repair as necessary. And they were way way over 1 ohm.

So, it seems to me, all the work I did was justified, even if the problem ended up being deeper than all of that.. And I'm still baffled on how it's related to mechanical timing.
 

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Classic Man
Civic
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How does mechanical timing change without part failure.... it doesnt. Sounds like they are getting taken for a ride and a new engine is the "easy way out". I assume timing chain but idk could be wrong... isnt it a Mitsubishi V6? so probably a belt then...

I really wish you still had the car so you could remove the crank sensor and stick a magnet in on that toothed wheel and see if it sticks or not.
 

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EG Hatch
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Discussion Starter #11
How does mechanical timing change without part failure.... it doesnt. Sounds like they are getting taken for a ride and a new engine is the "easy way out". I assume timing chain but idk could be wrong... isnt it a Mitsubishi V6? so probably a belt then...

I really wish you still had the car so you could remove the crank sensor and stick a magnet in on that toothed wheel and see if it sticks or not.
yeah, it does sound like they are being taken for a ride. I was talking to a friend, he has a buddy that is a Hyundai tech, that tech said he'd have done the work in the exact order that I did..

I also wish I had seen your suggestion on the magnet before pulling the plug on the car..
 

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my name says Guest, but Im really a MEMBER
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I've seen lots of cars jump timing. and quite a few hyundai/kia break all the teeth off the timing belt just at the crank gear.

Mechanical timing has to be checked. presence of a cam and crank signal.


I've seen these older hyundai's come in with a ton of codes. It's like fuck where do you start. As you say you can fix things obvious to start with and there's still a problem. Good luck explaining this to the customer.

Everything is tied together,. It's not always 1 specific component that's the problem.


As far as a no spark diag. I would have done things a bit different. you have to have cam and crank. ethier using a noid light, test light, scope, scan tool, etc. if the crank is fucked fix that. wouldn't have immediately thrown a cam sensor at it, or really even dicked around with the maf or cat for a no spark.


as far as the coils, the ohm test is pretty much worthless. .6 and it being at 2, doesn't mean anything to me. there resistence in test leads, etc. I've seen dead coil ohm in spec. Plus I'm guessing this thing has multiple coils?
 
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