Transmission needs some pumps in the clutch to switch gears smoothly. - D-series.org

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Old 08-05-2018, 12:15 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Transmission needs some pumps in the clutch to switch gears smoothly.

Hello,
My manual gearbox needs footsteps on the clutch pedal so I can change gears smoothly without scratching or grinding.
If I go straight from one gear to another It scratches the gearbox, and the gear's teeth. I cannot just step down the pedal once and go from onde gear to another freely and smoothly.

Then, in order to switch gear's smoothly I have to take my foot up totally off the clutch pedal and step it down all over again, so that the exchange gear can sync smoothly again.

What I feel is that if I try to switch gears without having my foot up all off the clutch pedal and stepped it down all over to the bottom again, there won't enough oil or oil pressure in the trasmission so the gears can fit without grinding and scratching It to sync in smoothly.
What should I do?
Civic 98 ex manual. Transmission S40
Thank you.
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Old 08-05-2018, 12:25 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Hi , I've changed both cylinders and bled the system spending 1 bottle of Honda dot3.
the DIY was rather an easy job to do.
The worst parts were the cotter pin removal from behind the pedal, and placing the slave cylinder inside the release fork's boot.
But after that everything went fine.
I've noticed already that my clutch is smoother of course, and the sqeaking sound dissapeared after i've bled it. Now I think that noise comes from air in the system when pushing pressure on It.
But after all it keeps grinding when I switch gears, the tranny is not smooth like butter.
It may have changed to a little bit more smoother but not how I was expecting It.
My old clutch master cylinder was leaking already with a lot of black "goo"coming out from the pin rod on the pedal, and now this issue is fixed at least.
But I keep feeling that there is not enough pressure pushing the release fork when I push down the clutch pedal, thats and why my "tranny's changing movement is so dificult and "grindy". On this matter the replacement of both cylinders changed It to a little bit more smoother.
Normaly to make the "switching gears movement on tranny" more smoother like butter I need to go back and forth trying to not "touch" the "grindings" along the tranny's path.
Like the manual tells me to do if I want to switch to reverse I should go to 5th first then come straigth down to the reverse gear.
Im not telling that I would allways need to do this kind of movement on the tranny to make the "path" clear and without grinding anything everytime I change gears. What Im trying to is to fix this and make this tranny relyable so i can think about something else when switching gears : /
I want to feel that like in my Civic '95 where vou can move the tranny from any gear to any gear freely , and It would feel like It the tranny is fixed on a "bucket of butter" down below.

There you can step down the clutch and "come with the tranny from the 5th to 1st without "grinding" or touching any "side walls" or anything along the path.
Its like if there the release fork is very well pushed down, giving me a "clear tranny's path movement". Free, fast, and smooth "stick on butter" movement I have on this '95 tranny when I switch gear. It allways go to a "right destination" without touch any iron stuff along the way.
Now on this '98 the "tranny's path" movement Its all grindy and very slow because im loosing power when I have to delay the movement trying to find a clear path on my tranny to switch gear without grinding.

I did calibrate the master cylinder Rod, by setting It to the same size of the old rod according to the size needed behind the clutch pedal.

I mean is there a fix or calibration for this lećo of pressure pushing the release fork?
Or could It be the release fork that is too old already?
Thanks.
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Old 08-05-2018, 02:09 PM   #3 (permalink)
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sounds like the clutch is going and could use replacing.....or your mounts are shot.....or the bushings are shot.....
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Old 08-05-2018, 02:20 PM   #4 (permalink)
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sit in the car, leave engine off and clutch left alone.

Put into 1st gear. wiggle shift lever. Not how it feels. should feel fairly direct and firm, yet of course will still have a bit of wiggle.

If it feels like crap, order an Energy Suspension branded shifter bushing kit. Will have a donut shape bushing and a longer bushing that has an offset hump.

For under $30 USD, they are a great investment in your driving feel.

Then if you are in the United States, purchase the shift lever bushing kit from NAPA for around $15 to firm up the shift lever itself.
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Old 08-06-2018, 09:07 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slo_eg8 View Post
sounds like the clutch is going and could use replacing.....or your mounts are shot.....or the bushings are shot.....
... or the synchro is on the way out ...
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Old 08-06-2018, 09:34 AM   #6 (permalink)
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lol, simple things first
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Old 08-06-2018, 10:42 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Hi, o I should change the transmission bushings and mounts? Os that correct?
And for the clutch what ill need os that energy clutch kit?
Thanks.
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Old 08-06-2018, 11:26 AM   #8 (permalink)
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you should inspect the bushings and if they look like they could use it, then replace them. passenger side and rear mount as well as shifter bushings.


energy suspensions make bushings, not clutch kits that I know of.....still don't even know if your clutch is going without inspecting it
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Old 08-06-2018, 11:29 AM   #9 (permalink)
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I do the rubber portions of the clutch hose look?
They could be weeping a little causing some of the issue.

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Old 08-06-2018, 11:09 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Clutch needs more bleeding, you have air in the line still from the MC replacement.
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Old 08-07-2018, 04:19 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by transzex View Post
Clutch needs more bleeding, you have air in the line still from the MC replacement.
better late than never lol
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Old 08-10-2018, 04:49 PM   #12 (permalink)
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If it allows you to shift without complaints after a few pedal pumps, problem definitely sounds to be in the clutch hydraulic circuit. You must make sure you are pumping the air trapped in the lines only toward the slave cylinder. Do not lift off the pedal with the bleeder screw loosened, it will suck air back into the slave cylinder.

**I wish I could post pictures, but I'm too much of a noob at this site and it won't allow it! I can send you them if you need a clearer picture of what to do.**

A quick trick to help bleed these pedals (it requires a seriously beefy and long pry bar) but it works everytime:


1. Place your pry bar in between your release bearing fork and the transmission bellhousing. Allow the tip/blade of the pry bar to work against the transmission housing bolt head nearest to the slave cylinder. (Have a strong enough friend help you with this). Have your friend PULL the pry bar against the fork so the release bearing is pressing AGAINST the pressure plate.

2. With your friend holding the pry bar in that position, press the clutch pedal DOWN and hold it. This will allow the slave cylinder rod to push OUT towards the fork. Have your friend RELEASE the pry bar so that the fork is now PUSHING AGAINST the slave cylinder rod. At this point, the pressure plate springs will be applying FORCE to the slave cylinder rod through the fork.

3. While you are still holding the pedal to the floor, have your friend crack the bleeder screw on the slave cylinder. Opening it will allow fluid to be forced out UNDER PRESSURE by the pressure plate springs. Close the bleeder screw, pull the pedal up off the floor

4. Verify you have sufficient fluid in the clutch master cylinder reservoir, and perform this action 2-3 more times.


On the last cycle, pull the pedal OFF the floor and attempt to press the clutch pedal as you normally would (do NOT crack the bleeder here!). Your pedal should be firm and completely air free, and the free play between the slave cylinder rod and release bearing fork should be set back to normal.

What happens under normal bleeding, air can get trapped at the end of the slave cylinder FARTHEST away from the bleeder screw. By allowing the slave cylinder to fill with fluid entirely and having the SLAVE CYLINDER basically bleed itself backwards will push the air out that can get trapped at the wrong end.

Normal pedal-pumping bleeding forces the air that was trapped in the line to the end of the slave cylinder, and it becomes compressed. It will relax some when your foot is off the pedal, and find its way to the bleeder screw, but it usually doesn't happen very quickly. Sometimes you have to let it sit for a WHILE so all the air can move UP to the top of the cylinder. Even then once you press the pedal IN, it pushes the air to the front of the cylinder AGAIN! Then your back where you started!

By performing the pry bar bleeding method above, air is forced back TOWARDS the bleeder screw, allowing a more complete air bleed.


Hopefully this helps you out, it has gotten me out of many "pumping the pedal a MILLION times to get the air out" situations.
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