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Old 08-22-2016, 08:07 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default failure to shift from 5th to neutral or 4th

I finally pulled the "rebuilt" trans from my car.
it was failing to shift out of 5th gear about 30% of the time, whether I was going to neutral or 4th, it would remain in 5th unless i popped it in and out of gear several times. In addition while coasting in 2nd it would make a noise much like straight cut gears.

Pulled it out today, and the 10k mile old torco rtf was coffee brown, but I am not seeing any metallic coloration.

I want to fix this trans but want to take a stab at it myself first. With my relative ignorance though I am not seeing anything obvious. What pics might help someone else point out problems? Or should I jsut go ahead and repalce every bearing etc?
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Old 08-22-2016, 09:14 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Also...the end joint on the shift linkage is very loose. I know that won't cause the noise, but could it cause the stuck in gear problems?
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Old 08-22-2016, 09:48 AM   #3 (permalink)
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With the case off, shift through all of the gears and observe to make sure everything is moving properly.

You might need to hold the idler and input shafts in place for proper movement. Would recommend you bring a friend to help.
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Old 08-22-2016, 11:13 AM   #4 (permalink)
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4th and 5th gear on mainshaft, look for heat discoloration/blackening

The roller bearing bearing or synchro.

Let me know what it needs. I'll be freeing up time after Runoffs, cooler weather helping.
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Old 08-22-2016, 12:01 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I definitely need a second set of hands to cycle the gears right now without holding the shafts steady they rock apart and look very sloppy.

4th and 5th on the mainshaft look good, no discoloration of any sort. I did clean them off well first as they had a thin layer of coffee colored crud on them. In fact no unusual coloration on anything I have pulled off yet.

I did notice that the slider on the 5th gear syncro set was chewed up badly on the pointed end of the teeth. I compared it to the slider hub thing from another bad transmission and the one from the bad trans looked MUCH better. Could those teeth being ground off enough cause it to not slide back into neutral or allow entry into other gears? Its bad enough that I am not talking just polished spots, but I can actually see large burrs and the tips of the points ground off completely.
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Old 08-22-2016, 12:01 PM   #6 (permalink)
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also are there any distinguishing marks on an Mfactory differential? Just want to make sure it actually is one rather than say maybe an OBX...


the countershaft had metallic particulate in all the oiling holes. there was nothing like this in the bottom of the case. makes me think it blew up before and they fixed it and failed to clean it out well.



for peace of mind i am going to replace all the bearings i think. the needle bearings actually look good. clean everything really well, new bearings and then compare sleeves and hubs from my other parts transmission and put the best parts in...

my bras syncro rings look very good...is it worth upgrading to carbon?


or should i jsut pay once and cry once witht this http://shop.synchrotech-transmission...plqscsfapp001?

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Old 08-22-2016, 10:59 PM   #7 (permalink)
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You can't bench shift with the case split.

Coffee crud is bad, on 4th and 5th that means they were generally getting hot and cooking.

Bad slider/chewed up would prevent selecting the other side gear. For example if 4th gear side of the slider was boogered it it would block 3rd gear engagement.

Now if 5th gear roller bearing or synchro was an issue, 5th gear would be dragging and trying to find another gear would be almost impossible.

Pics, need pics.

For the record, isn't this one I built for you? I cleared out PM folders after not hearing anything after the initial 5th gear issue and maybe your linkage issue.

Carbons....I've installed a few sets, had a few failures with early batches that David @ ST took care of, but I have (that I know of) never driven on them. I have a set (perk!)here to install when I rebuild my CRX trans. Right now I might be fighting a stretching clutch cable....or very worn stock synchros.

I'd post pics from PhotoBucket of when I lost 5th gear, but seems they have either been hacked, taken over by spyware, or wanting huge money. Thankfully old links still work.
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Old 08-23-2016, 02:50 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Once i get my daughter on the bus for school i will get a series of pics from each item and shaft.

The oily residue wipes right off at least leaving no trace behind.

And not your work. I would have handled it privately completely and just sent it back. When i can be convinced to pay a third party for work i try not to mess with their work.
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Old 08-23-2016, 04:47 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Pics of each part, they are a little bit dirty since my bench is not cleaned up for rebuild, just tearing it down right now.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5...ndwYmNwQTQ3ZEE
anyone should be able to view them.

I noted that every single hub/slider combo did NOT slide freely. the sliders all have sharp burrs on the pointed end of the splines, i saw no discoloartion anywhere that was notable enough to cause bluing or anything else.

I am really thinking of just getting the master rebuild kit from synchrotec with the sliders, it is more than I want to spend, but a few of the bearings are noisy/sloppy, while others like the diff bearings feel great.
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Old 08-23-2016, 10:34 AM   #10 (permalink)
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I will download the pics on other PC (Win7) as this on (Win10) isn't playing nice.

Some bearings are naturally "loose" but I notice the mainshaft is lacking oil ports, 90-91 mainshaft. If the hubs are messed up that bad, likely the shift forks are messed up as well.

It only takes a heavy handed driver or two one weekend to wreck the sliders/hubs/forks, XavH22 on here did it with a trans I built for his (RIP) CRX.
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Old 08-23-2016, 12:55 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Possibly replaced shift forks, the other set i have to compare to have 1-2 mm worn step where they contacted the sliders while the ones in this trans have no step that i can feel just a polished surface on that contact area. I suspect these guys were just replacing parts from other transmissions as needed when they had a problem if there's something else and I never really did a full rebuild
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Old 08-23-2016, 08:13 PM   #12 (permalink)
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3rd gear countershaft has serious damage from improper 2nd gear clearnace, likely second gear CS also has heat damage. Also note the chipped gear teeth on 3rd gear on the hub side, normally is on the other side.

PS: downloading the whole file as a 85 mb zip file, then opening on Win7 PC allowed easy zooming in.
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Old 08-24-2016, 02:36 AM   #13 (permalink)
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I really appreciate you taking a look. The heat damage you referring to is that on the machine services that are on the gears facing each other? I am assuming those should be a machine mirror-like finish rather than the uneven looking finish. If that is the case then second third and fourth all have that kind of damage on the machine surfaces that ride against each other. I need to look further but I'm not seeing the chip anywhere. I pulled the counter shift gears off of my spare transmission and I can see there is no heat damage unfortunately all of them have pitted faces on the teeth and are basically unusable.

In a perfect world I guess I would do best to replace bothgears on both shafts. I will start fishing around for Transmissions aside from the obvious Si l 3 transmission are there other ones I could pull the appropriate gears from? For what I just be better off going ahead and converting to a later model transmission and swapping my diff into it?

With the possible clearance issues you mentioned would those be likely related to incorrect assembly or perhaps heavily damaged broken down transmission oil that is way too thin to protect the metal? The guy who sold me the transmission said they'd used Honda MTF rather than torco or some other brand of race oriented oil.
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Old 08-24-2016, 02:41 AM   #14 (permalink)
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It also just occurred to me I had rebuilt the original transmission from this car with an NTN bearing kit and new Synchro rings we didn't see much heat damage at all and only replaced one or two parts aside from the bearings and seals. It might be the cheapest thing just to put the differential with its new diff bearings in the currently Best Transmission of the three which would also save me quite a bit of money
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Old 08-24-2016, 11:59 AM   #15 (permalink)
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SI or DX gearset will work, just the once bearing on countershaft is different.

I have several cases here where I tore them apart just for the shifter fork assemblies, stuff the gear stacks back in and closed them up.

10w30 NAPA Synthetic due to heat would have been perfect...Honda fluid and/or bad clearances = bad.

Others reading this, the way he posted his photos using a FREE google account was excellent..
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Old 08-24-2016, 02:59 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Awesome.

I really appreciate the knowledge.

Right now I am going to crack open the transmission I rebuilt ten days ago and swap the differential over. I have one set of fair shift forks out and a set of very good ones, I will put the best of the 3 sets I have into my rebuilt trans and put it back in the car. The rest of the parts I am going to liberally oil and pack in plastic bags and call it a day for now.

If PIC had an FD for my transmission i would have just bought that. I guess I am going to become a cable trans hoarder though and start trying to keep spares of everything i can...
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Old 08-24-2016, 06:18 PM   #17 (permalink)
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I have a cable 4.9 GearX for sale on here
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