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Old 07-18-2016, 07:23 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Testing the new gear ratios! (Video)

I recently got the S40B000 5-speed transmission for my NA built d16z6 rebuilt. It's been rebuilt using the Synchrotech Carbon Synchro rebuild kit. I was already using a Quaife LSD. I'm running Honda MTF. I just had the head built so I'm taking it easy through the gears until the tuning has been done.

Gear Ratios:
1. 3.250 (stock)
2. 1.909 (stock)
3. 1.565 (MFactory 3rd)
4. 1.250 (stock 3rd moved to 4th)
5. 0.878 (ZC 5th)
Final Drive: 4.25 (stock)

https://youtu.be/CNqnOtrXHTc
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The old: NA d16z6 - 158whp - RIP May 22, 2017 (dropped exhaust valve)
The new: OBD1 JDM GSR 1.8L DOHC VTEC - 198whp, 138wtrq, Integra Type-R S80 LSD transmission.
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Old 07-18-2016, 08:22 PM   #2 (permalink)
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nice. i run a 1-4 zc gears, si 5th, 4.7 ats final, and a mfactory lsd. i couldnt be happier, although for track days i prolly would have liked the 4.9 final, but i drive it on the street as well so i had to have a bit of compromise.

what does the motor build consist of ? what whp levels do you think your going to hit ?

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Old 07-18-2016, 08:32 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by STRATTON View Post
nice. i run a 1-4 zc gears, si 5th, 4.7 ats final, and a mfactory lsd. i couldnt be happier, although for track days i prolly would have liked the 4.9 final, but i drive it on the street as well so i had to have a bit of compromise.

what does the motor build consist of ? what whp levels do you think your going to hit ?

stratton.
Hey Stratton.

The motor is a d16z6. Last year I had the block rebuilt and bored out to 75.5mm. Running P29 pistons. Was using a y8 intake manifold ported to 60mm inlet and opened up the runners, stock head with Bisi level 2 camshaft. Kept the redline to 7200rpm to prevent valve float. Made 130whp on a Dyno Dynamics roller dyno last year. Used a P06 ECU tuned on Crome.

This year had a head ported and polished. Using a Rocket Motorsports stage 4 camshaft with their springs and Ti retainers. Using another y8 IM at 60mm inlet, bored out runners with poly IM gasket matched to the head intake. A few other miscellaneous items.

I'm getting it tuned this Wednesday July 20th. Will be tuned with Neptune. I expect higher rev limits and more power. Don't have a specific WHP in mind but I'm excited to see what it'll do.
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1993 Honda Civic del Sol Si.
The old: NA d16z6 - 158whp - RIP May 22, 2017 (dropped exhaust valve)
The new: OBD1 JDM GSR 1.8L DOHC VTEC - 198whp, 138wtrq, Integra Type-R S80 LSD transmission.
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Old 07-19-2016, 12:10 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by curlybandit View Post
Hey Stratton.

The motor is a d16z6. Last year I had the block rebuilt and bored out to 75.5mm. Running P29 pistons. Was using a y8 intake manifold ported to 60mm inlet and opened up the runners, stock head with Bisi level 2 camshaft. Kept the redline to 7200rpm to prevent valve float. Made 130whp on a Dyno Dynamics roller dyno last year. Used a P06 ECU tuned on Crome.

This year had a head ported and polished. Using a Rocket Motorsports stage 4 camshaft with their springs and Ti retainers. Using another y8 IM at 60mm inlet, bored out runners with poly IM gasket matched to the head intake. A few other miscellaneous items.

I'm getting it tuned this Wednesday July 20th. Will be tuned with Neptune. I expect higher rev limits and more power. Don't have a specific WHP in mind but I'm excited to see what it'll do.
sounds like a solid set up. did you clay the motor with the new head and cam/retard the cam a bunch of degrees ? p29s dont have very deep reliefs. alot of power is dialed in via dialing in the cam.

gl.

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Old 07-19-2016, 01:27 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by STRATTON View Post
sounds like a solid set up. did you clay the motor with the new head and cam/retard the cam a bunch of degrees ? p29s dont have very deep reliefs. alot of power is dialed in via dialing in the cam.

gl.

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Hey Stratton.

The research was done by me. The assembly was done by very skilled technicians. I'm going to assume that the motor was clayed (is that even a word?) by the tech that installed the head onto the block. Of course I can always ask.

You mentioned retarding the camshaft a bunch of degrees. From what my tech had told me, he reset the camshaft gear to 0* (it was adjusted 5* - don't recall if it was retarded or advanced - to account for the y8 camshaft in the previous z6 head). How many degrees do you suggest?

I'll be getting the tune done tomorrow. I can relay this information to the tuner as well.

Thanks!
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The old: NA d16z6 - 158whp - RIP May 22, 2017 (dropped exhaust valve)
The new: OBD1 JDM GSR 1.8L DOHC VTEC - 198whp, 138wtrq, Integra Type-R S80 LSD transmission.
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Old 07-19-2016, 09:30 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I have never agreed with the 1.565 3rd gear. Only good use I've seen is on a faster than normal autox course.
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Old 07-20-2016, 05:50 AM   #7 (permalink)
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I have never agreed with the 1.565 3rd gear. Only good use I've seen is on a faster than normal autox course.
I'll admit. It is rather close to 1.909 stock second gear. They're rally only separated by around 500rpm.

But for the tracks I hit around here, that may help.

Won't know until I finally get the car to the track!
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The old: NA d16z6 - 158whp - RIP May 22, 2017 (dropped exhaust valve)
The new: OBD1 JDM GSR 1.8L DOHC VTEC - 198whp, 138wtrq, Integra Type-R S80 LSD transmission.
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Old 07-20-2016, 05:09 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by curlybandit View Post
Hey Stratton.

The research was done by me. The assembly was done by very skilled technicians. I'm going to assume that the motor was clayed (is that even a word?) by the tech that installed the head onto the block. Of course I can always ask.

You mentioned retarding the camshaft a bunch of degrees. From what my tech had told me, he reset the camshaft gear to 0* (it was adjusted 5* - don't recall if it was retarded or advanced - to account for the y8 camshaft in the previous z6 head). How many degrees do you suggest?

I'll be getting the tune done tomorrow. I can relay this information to the tuner as well.

Thanks!
You clay the motor to ensure the valves dont hit the pistons, tdc, and a few in either direction retarted and advanced.

you tune the car generally at tdc. retard the cam 2 degrees on your adjustable cam gear, advance the cam 2 degrees on your adjustable cam gear, see wich one made more power. then go back to that setting, tune it and then go 2 more degrees. and repeat this process till the cam/motor stops making power.

its called dialing in the cam. all motors benefit from this.

just recently i tuned my car, i picked up nearly 10whp just be follwing these same steps and retarding my cam a total of 6 degrees.

stratton.
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Old 07-24-2016, 03:18 PM   #9 (permalink)
 
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I have never agreed with the 1.565 3rd gear. Only good use I've seen is on a faster than normal autox course.
Drive on a road course with one and you will change your mind.
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Old 07-24-2016, 04:24 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Aquafina View Post
Drive on a road course with one and you will change your mind.
I'll be doing just that on July 31st. Looking forward to seeing how the short gears work together with the NA build.

Expect to see videos!
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Old 07-24-2016, 05:37 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Drive on a road course with one and you will change your mind.
1.65 2nd, 1.346 3rd, 1.066 4th, .878 5th
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Old 07-26-2016, 09:57 AM   #12 (permalink)
 
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Drive on a road course with one and you will change your mind.

1.650 only works for cable and requires both the 4spd 1/2 gears and DOHC ZC 3/4/5 (or CX 3rd versus ZC 4th. MFactory gear set is OTS and works in cable and hydro.
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Old 07-26-2016, 04:32 PM   #13 (permalink)
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For SCCA/NASA rolling starts, the 1.65 is better, then you are in 3-4-5 with a stock easy to find 4.25 FD and 20" slicks

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Had a career best ever start that racers dream of. Right gear, right part of the power band and timed the flag right and just powered up the outside from P6 to P1 overall before Turn 1
MF gears would cost more and require 4.058 FD or taller slicks, both are budget busters at the moment. But at Grattan (slower track) HF second was used three times a lap, one track a MF 3-5 would benefit.

But not everyone can afford to build a $2500+ gear box just for ONE track.
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Old 07-27-2016, 06:11 AM   #14 (permalink)
 
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Most people run street tires and use one transmission. 4.058 is easy to find.

I've run both the 4.058 and 4.25 on multiple tracks and only ran out of gear with the 4.25 at one track.
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Old 07-27-2016, 06:08 PM   #15 (permalink)
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i don't mean to thread jack but I have a question i hope you can lead me in the right direction.

I have been thinking of building a custom trans for my d17y8 build i probably going to turbo it low boost. but it should still make tons of tq. 180 to 200ft/lb at least. I have a mfactory lsd so it should help with my traction problem. It would be mostly street fun (not racing) and the occasional autox what do you think would be better 4.25 or 4.058 final with a short gear set that i can afford. I already have plenty of 4.25's being i have 3 ex hydro trans and one si cable trans but i kinda need the fuel mileage to go up so i was thinking 4.058 would do that and not hurt my perfomace that much. kinda like best of both world compromise. also what gear can i use from this cable si trans in my hyro unit and would it be worth it to swap them over. The tires I run would be 195 55 15 or 205 50 15 for daily and 225 45 15 for autox. the cars a 95 ex coupe. 2600+ lbs

Any advice would help thanks.
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Old 07-27-2016, 10:09 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Most people run street tires and use one transmission. 4.058 is easy to find.

I've run both the 4.058 and 4.25 on multiple tracks and only ran out of gear with the 4.25 at one track.
Sorry Curly for the hijack!!!!

Chris, street cars vs. race cars, apples and oranges. Few of the "street" drivers understand the splitting of hairs with ratios to where they might have to give up a bit on one corner, but gain BIG on another. There is no perfect trans that works at all tracks....else we wouldn't be so busy
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Old 07-27-2016, 10:24 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by maohonda View Post
i don't mean to thread jack but I have a question i hope you can lead me in the right direction.

I have been thinking of building a custom trans for my d17y8 build i probably going to turbo it low boost. but it should still make tons of tq. 180 to 200ft/lb at least. I have a mfactory lsd so it should help with my traction problem. It would be mostly street fun (not racing) and the occasional autox what do you think would be better 4.25 or 4.058 final with a short gear set that i can afford. I already have plenty of 4.25's being i have 3 ex hydro trans and one si cable trans but i kinda need the fuel mileage to go up so i was thinking 4.058 would do that and not hurt my perfomace that much. kinda like best of both world compromise. also what gear can i use from this cable si trans in my hyro unit and would it be worth it to swap them over. The tires I run would be 195 55 15 or 205 50 15 for daily and 225 45 15 for autox. the cars a 95 ex coupe. 2600+ lbs

Any advice would help thanks.
Slo might need to move this post to it's own, I'll leave that up to him. With TQ ratios are less of an issue but still something to look at. You can build a trans to do two things very good, but not all three three decently.

Autox gearing will depends on class rules, lot size (if only one local site) as Pro site tend to be bigger an faster.

Fuel economy, both Chris and I agree to not bog the motor and let it find a happy spot, generally just above 3000 rpms, but that depends on your tune esp. with the D17 setup.

2600# EG Coupe? I'd start there as my EG HB with driver was 2220 lbs. That weight will effect EVERYTHING. Aero also matters.

For Autox on a larger lot, a DX 1-2 gearset would give you the need MPH in second gear and avoid dancing on the limiter or having to do the 2-3-2 shift dance which generally loses time. Now if the back half of the course is open and free following, a stock 2nd and MF close 3rd that you can carry to the lights makes sense....I've built two that way.

For the record, D15Beast7 got 53 mpg @ 70 MPH on pure gas with stock EG DX gearing and Blundar Tuning. My 89 HF with D16A6/Y8 mini-me (no VTEC yet) on stock ECU and ZC trans has gotten 48 mpg @ 65 mph with E10...pushing 75-80 mph it went below 40 mpg for a first time.
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Old 07-28-2016, 11:49 PM   #18 (permalink)
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If you want to comment more on this and not hijack this man's thread more I will take my comments in my "D17y8 stroker for the daily" Tread. It my build thread thanks "Curly Bandit"

The best I ever gotten our of my car with my, d15y7 mini me, for fuel milage consistently is 38. Thats with tuned lean burn & being easy on it and cruising at 60 mph which is like 2500 to 2800 rpm. The engine seems to find sweet spot not lugging but not screaming. And you right, Transzex, dx Trans do get better fuel milage that why I was thinking ex gear set with dx final. but, I have seen people do the hx 3rd flipped to 4th. With zc 3rd or in my case probably si cable 3rd if possible. My thought process is close shift points with Slightly taller final would yeild slightly better results all around for the rpm limited D17. This is essentially what the b series people do type R gear set with ls 5th and final. They do this more with turbo cars, not n/a.
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Last edited by maohonda; 07-28-2016 at 11:56 PM.
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Old 07-29-2016, 12:13 AM   #19 (permalink)
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I have to BEAT on my D16A6/Y8 mini-me to get below 40 mpg, running 75-80 mph was needed. Trip the other day across back roads of Indiana, mostly 60 mph, I was 46-48 mpg on cheap 87 octane, but with the heat there was some pinging. I put in $10 (just over 4 gallons) of 93 in her for today's trip. 3000 rpm is my sweet spot and knowing the throttle control.

I know if I add a vacuum gauge I'll do better mileage....but already getting plenty enough!
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