Problem after ZC gears swap - D-series.org

Go Back   D-series.org Motor Mayhem & Suspension Satisfaction Transmission alley

D-Series.org is the premier Honda All Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-17-2016, 02:09 PM   #1 (permalink)
n00b
 
iTrader: (0)
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 31
Rep Power: 0 gzob is nobody
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Default Problem after ZC gears swap

Hello guys, I need your help. I have swapped ZC 3rd and 4th gears in my S8G gearbox (late del sol). Modification was done to the mainshaft 4th gear as seen in this forum, it was straight forward and easy. After assembling the gearbox, everything seems to work but I here a strange noise, especially when I press the clutch and car is moving (mainly with first gear but sound is also audible (less) with 2nd or 3rd engaged). It sounds like reverse is trying to engage.

I drove about 50 miles and decided to open the gearbox again. Problem is that nothing strange or destroyed was found! No metal debris, nothing. So decided to measure some clearances and reassembled the gearbox.

Sound is still there. I have driven an additional 150 miles and I am thinking to open gearbox again see if everything can now be seen and get a synchrotech rebuild kit with carbon synchros and new bearings.

Any ideas on what might have gone wrong?
gzob is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 02-19-2016, 03:03 AM   #2 (permalink)
 
Aquafina's Avatar
 
iTrader: (27)
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Johnson City, TN
Posts: 4,165
Rep Power: 27 Aquafina is the fucking MAN!!!!Aquafina is the fucking MAN!!!!Aquafina is the fucking MAN!!!!Aquafina is the fucking MAN!!!!
Aquafina is the fucking MAN!!!!Aquafina is the fucking MAN!!!!Aquafina is the fucking MAN!!!!Aquafina is the fucking MAN!!!!Aquafina is the fucking MAN!!!!Aquafina is the fucking MAN!!!!Aquafina is the fucking MAN!!!!Aquafina is the fucking MAN!!!!Aquafina is the fucking MAN!!!!Aquafina is the fucking MAN!!!!Aquafina is the fucking MAN!!!!Aquafina is the fucking MAN!!!!Aquafina is the fucking MAN!!!!Aquafina is the fucking MAN!!!!Aquafina is the fucking MAN!!!!
iTrader Score: 27 reviews
Send a message via AIM to Aquafina
Default

The only sound reverse makes when trying to engage is a grind. Can you be more descriptive?
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Rocket Motorsports, MFactory, Torco, Action Clutch, HASport, Synchrotech, OS Giken, Gear-X, Wavetrac, Quaife
Official MFactory North American Installer

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Aquafina is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-19-2016, 10:54 AM   #3 (permalink)
n00b
 
iTrader: (0)
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 31
Rep Power: 0 gzob is nobody
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Default

When reverse is engaged and car is moving, the sound is different as reverse is straight cut, not helical. Well, something like this is heard from my tranny but only in the conditions I mentioned above (especially when clutch pedal is pressed and either neutral, 1st, 2nd and 3rd is engaged). I cannot really describe it more, English is not my native language and it is a little hard to describe noises. I will open up the gearbox again probably late next week and see.
gzob is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-19-2016, 12:22 PM   #4 (permalink)
 
Aquafina's Avatar
 
iTrader: (27)
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Johnson City, TN
Posts: 4,165
Rep Power: 27 Aquafina is the fucking MAN!!!!Aquafina is the fucking MAN!!!!Aquafina is the fucking MAN!!!!Aquafina is the fucking MAN!!!!
Aquafina is the fucking MAN!!!!Aquafina is the fucking MAN!!!!Aquafina is the fucking MAN!!!!Aquafina is the fucking MAN!!!!Aquafina is the fucking MAN!!!!Aquafina is the fucking MAN!!!!Aquafina is the fucking MAN!!!!Aquafina is the fucking MAN!!!!Aquafina is the fucking MAN!!!!Aquafina is the fucking MAN!!!!Aquafina is the fucking MAN!!!!Aquafina is the fucking MAN!!!!Aquafina is the fucking MAN!!!!Aquafina is the fucking MAN!!!!Aquafina is the fucking MAN!!!!
iTrader Score: 27 reviews
Send a message via AIM to Aquafina
Default

If the car is not moving, clutch is disengaged and the trans is in gear with the engine running, there should be no change in sound as the trans being in gear doesn't affect anything as it isn't spinning. If it makes a noise under the same conditions but the car is moving, it will make a whine when the transmission is spinning faster than it normally would (i.e. its in first gear with the clutch disengaged and car moving at 50mph).
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Rocket Motorsports, MFactory, Torco, Action Clutch, HASport, Synchrotech, OS Giken, Gear-X, Wavetrac, Quaife
Official MFactory North American Installer

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Aquafina is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-20-2016, 11:09 AM   #5 (permalink)
n00b
 
iTrader: (0)
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 31
Rep Power: 0 gzob is nobody
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Default

It only makes a sound when car is moving, clutch is pressed but not without the limits of an otherwise 'normal' rotation speed. For example you put 1st you accelerate to 10mph and you press the clutch to change to second gear. The time you press the clutch, you hear this sould from the gearbox. It sounds like reverse idler gear is messing with a gear or sth at that point. However I also suspect a bearing or incorrect shaft shimming (although shimming should not change as I am using the same transmission housing with the same shafts).

Last edited by gzob; 02-20-2016 at 11:13 AM.
gzob is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-20-2016, 12:58 PM   #6 (permalink)
 
Aquafina's Avatar
 
iTrader: (27)
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Johnson City, TN
Posts: 4,165
Rep Power: 27 Aquafina is the fucking MAN!!!!Aquafina is the fucking MAN!!!!Aquafina is the fucking MAN!!!!Aquafina is the fucking MAN!!!!
Aquafina is the fucking MAN!!!!Aquafina is the fucking MAN!!!!Aquafina is the fucking MAN!!!!Aquafina is the fucking MAN!!!!Aquafina is the fucking MAN!!!!Aquafina is the fucking MAN!!!!Aquafina is the fucking MAN!!!!Aquafina is the fucking MAN!!!!Aquafina is the fucking MAN!!!!Aquafina is the fucking MAN!!!!Aquafina is the fucking MAN!!!!Aquafina is the fucking MAN!!!!Aquafina is the fucking MAN!!!!Aquafina is the fucking MAN!!!!Aquafina is the fucking MAN!!!!
iTrader Score: 27 reviews
Send a message via AIM to Aquafina
Default

Best guess is a bearing. Unless something is on upside down shimming won't change.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Rocket Motorsports, MFactory, Torco, Action Clutch, HASport, Synchrotech, OS Giken, Gear-X, Wavetrac, Quaife
Official MFactory North American Installer

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Aquafina is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-20-2016, 09:48 PM   #7 (permalink)
D-series lover
 
92_civic_92's Avatar
 
iTrader: (5)
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Northwest GA
Posts: 213
Rep Power: 9 92_civic_92  is slowly gaining respect92_civic_92  is slowly gaining respect92_civic_92  is slowly gaining respect92_civic_92  is slowly gaining respect92_civic_92  is slowly gaining respect
iTrader Score: 5 reviews
Default

May not be the problem but I had the reverse sound in most gears once it turned out to be the throw out bearing fork had broke on one side and it was hard to get out of 5th gear also.
92_civic_92 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-20-2016, 11:58 PM   #8 (permalink)
n00b
 
iTrader: (0)
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 31
Rep Power: 0 gzob is nobody
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Default

Would you ever suspect a needle bearing inside gears? I have never seen them fail but who knows. I got a rebuild kit to be fitted this week but it does not contain needle bearings.

Btw, I am supposed to use the zc 3rd needle bearing as everyone suggests and this is what I initially did. but when I reassembled the shafts to see what this sound was, I noticed that since it is shorter than hydro 3rd, there would be excessive play. So I used the longer (hydro 3rd) needle bearing. Nothing changed though so it was not the reason. But since I am rebuilding this week, should I finally use the short or the long needle? It does not seem to make a difference anyway.
gzob is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-22-2016, 04:44 AM   #9 (permalink)
 
Aquafina's Avatar
 
iTrader: (27)
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Johnson City, TN
Posts: 4,165
Rep Power: 27 Aquafina is the fucking MAN!!!!Aquafina is the fucking MAN!!!!Aquafina is the fucking MAN!!!!Aquafina is the fucking MAN!!!!
Aquafina is the fucking MAN!!!!Aquafina is the fucking MAN!!!!Aquafina is the fucking MAN!!!!Aquafina is the fucking MAN!!!!Aquafina is the fucking MAN!!!!Aquafina is the fucking MAN!!!!Aquafina is the fucking MAN!!!!Aquafina is the fucking MAN!!!!Aquafina is the fucking MAN!!!!Aquafina is the fucking MAN!!!!Aquafina is the fucking MAN!!!!Aquafina is the fucking MAN!!!!Aquafina is the fucking MAN!!!!Aquafina is the fucking MAN!!!!Aquafina is the fucking MAN!!!!
iTrader Score: 27 reviews
Send a message via AIM to Aquafina
Default

They rarely fail on their own, I've only had a handful fail and I build a lot of transmissions.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Rocket Motorsports, MFactory, Torco, Action Clutch, HASport, Synchrotech, OS Giken, Gear-X, Wavetrac, Quaife
Official MFactory North American Installer

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Aquafina is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-22-2016, 10:57 AM   #10 (permalink)
n00b
 
iTrader: (0)
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 31
Rep Power: 0 gzob is nobody
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Default

And you can tell if they fail? If they look fine, is there a chance they have failed and produce noise? Also Aquafina, have you ever assembled a D hydro gearbox with ZC gears? What needle bearing you use for the 3rd? The ZC short one or the cable longer one?
gzob is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-22-2016, 11:18 AM   #11 (permalink)
Brokedick Millionaire
 
transzex's Avatar
 
iTrader: (59)
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Cincity OH
Posts: 40,183
Rep Power: 108 transzex is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !transzex is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !transzex is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !transzex is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !transzex is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !
transzex is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !transzex is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !transzex is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !transzex is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !transzex is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !transzex is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !transzex is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !transzex is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !transzex is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !transzex is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !transzex is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !transzex is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !
iTrader Score: 59 reviews
Default

I used the stock rollers under the ZC gears in a 92-00 box. I have seen them fail but it was generally due to ran low on oil or the oil ports were clogged, and they seized up. But themselves didn't fail.
__________________
Mista Bone



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Quote:
Originally Posted by patprimmer RIP
I will always feed an inquisitive mind, prod a lazy noob and blast a disrespectful bum.
transzex is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-23-2016, 06:26 AM   #12 (permalink)
 
Aquafina's Avatar
 
iTrader: (27)
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Johnson City, TN
Posts: 4,165
Rep Power: 27 Aquafina is the fucking MAN!!!!Aquafina is the fucking MAN!!!!Aquafina is the fucking MAN!!!!Aquafina is the fucking MAN!!!!
Aquafina is the fucking MAN!!!!Aquafina is the fucking MAN!!!!Aquafina is the fucking MAN!!!!Aquafina is the fucking MAN!!!!Aquafina is the fucking MAN!!!!Aquafina is the fucking MAN!!!!Aquafina is the fucking MAN!!!!Aquafina is the fucking MAN!!!!Aquafina is the fucking MAN!!!!Aquafina is the fucking MAN!!!!Aquafina is the fucking MAN!!!!Aquafina is the fucking MAN!!!!Aquafina is the fucking MAN!!!!Aquafina is the fucking MAN!!!!Aquafina is the fucking MAN!!!!
iTrader Score: 27 reviews
Send a message via AIM to Aquafina
Default

When they fail you can tell by looking at them, they come apart in pieces. I've built many hydro transmissions with ZC gears. Use the stock needle bearings.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Rocket Motorsports, MFactory, Torco, Action Clutch, HASport, Synchrotech, OS Giken, Gear-X, Wavetrac, Quaife
Official MFactory North American Installer

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Aquafina is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-23-2016, 09:49 AM   #13 (permalink)
n00b
 
iTrader: (0)
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 31
Rep Power: 0 gzob is nobody
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Default

When you say stock, you mean the stock hydro ones, right? Thanks guys, my rebuild kit just arrived so I hope I find some time till the end of the week to open it up and see what is wrong.
gzob is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-23-2016, 11:24 AM   #14 (permalink)
Brokedick Millionaire
 
transzex's Avatar
 
iTrader: (59)
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Cincity OH
Posts: 40,183
Rep Power: 108 transzex is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !transzex is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !transzex is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !transzex is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !transzex is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !
transzex is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !transzex is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !transzex is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !transzex is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !transzex is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !transzex is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !transzex is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !transzex is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !transzex is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !transzex is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !transzex is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !transzex is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !
iTrader Score: 59 reviews
Default

Yep, only modification needed it to ZC 4th gear mainshaft to clear the 3-4 hub.
__________________
Mista Bone



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Quote:
Originally Posted by patprimmer RIP
I will always feed an inquisitive mind, prod a lazy noob and blast a disrespectful bum.
transzex is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-06-2016, 12:40 AM   #15 (permalink)
n00b
 
iTrader: (0)
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 31
Rep Power: 0 gzob is nobody
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Default

I am frustrated. Changed all 7 bearings and nothing changed. There is no debris caught on the magnet and I could not locate wear anywhere inside the gearbox. Tranny itself works like a champ but I get a strange noise when 'load direction' changes. More specifically:
1. No noise when accelerating (or can't hear it)
2. Very little (if any) noise when decelarating with gears engaged
3. Noise is heard mainly if you accelerate with 1st gear and then depress clutch with 1st gear still engaged so now power is transferred from the secondary to the mainshaft.
4. Noise is much less using the same procedure as in (3) with the rest of the gears and becomes quite audible again with 5th (still less than 1st). What changes in fifth gear with clutch depressed is that the sound is not continuous but intermittent (comes-goes, following the frequency of rotation).

In the following video, I accelerate slightly with 1st gear and depress the clutch in second 4. You can then hear the strange sound then. Any ideas?

https://youtu.be/AgTDj7214SU

Specs:
S8G del sol '96 gearbox
ZC 3rd and 4th gears
0.771 5th from euro spec civic 92-95 d16z6 powered gearbox (shorter than US EX)
Mfactory helical LSD (thrust clearance set correctly)
All brand new bearings

Sound started when I swapped to ZC gears. I have carefully modified the ZC 4th and measured every possible dimension of it. I made it identical to hydro 4th. Could this sound be a bad 1-2 syncro-sleeve-hub set? The only thing I have not done is measure primary shaft thrust clearance as I do not have all the equipment. But tranny was working perfectly and dimensions of ZC gears were REALLY close to the hydro parts I replaced so thrust should not change.
gzob is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-06-2016, 09:04 AM   #16 (permalink)
 
Aquafina's Avatar
 
iTrader: (27)
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Johnson City, TN
Posts: 4,165
Rep Power: 27 Aquafina is the fucking MAN!!!!Aquafina is the fucking MAN!!!!Aquafina is the fucking MAN!!!!Aquafina is the fucking MAN!!!!
Aquafina is the fucking MAN!!!!Aquafina is the fucking MAN!!!!Aquafina is the fucking MAN!!!!Aquafina is the fucking MAN!!!!Aquafina is the fucking MAN!!!!Aquafina is the fucking MAN!!!!Aquafina is the fucking MAN!!!!Aquafina is the fucking MAN!!!!Aquafina is the fucking MAN!!!!Aquafina is the fucking MAN!!!!Aquafina is the fucking MAN!!!!Aquafina is the fucking MAN!!!!Aquafina is the fucking MAN!!!!Aquafina is the fucking MAN!!!!Aquafina is the fucking MAN!!!!
iTrader Score: 27 reviews
Send a message via AIM to Aquafina
Default

Gears themselves (except for the mainshaft) don't change the mainshaft clearance.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Rocket Motorsports, MFactory, Torco, Action Clutch, HASport, Synchrotech, OS Giken, Gear-X, Wavetrac, Quaife
Official MFactory North American Installer

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Aquafina is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-06-2016, 09:25 AM   #17 (permalink)
n00b
 
iTrader: (0)
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 31
Rep Power: 0 gzob is nobody
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Default

You are right. Any thoughts on this issue? I am leaning towards 1-2 hub-sleeve and/or some needle bearing failing allowing gears to go out of alignment. This time, I did not disassembled the shafts, just replaced all bearings so I could not check needle bearings.
gzob is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-06-2016, 11:42 AM   #18 (permalink)
n00b
 
iTrader: (0)
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 31
Rep Power: 0 gzob is nobody
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Default

By the way, do you have to flip the hydro 3-4 hub when using ZC gears? I did not do anything like that.
gzob is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-07-2016, 06:21 PM   #19 (permalink)
All powerful D-series member
 
TheToaster's Avatar
 
iTrader: (7)
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Washington
Posts: 3,092
Rep Power: 16 TheToaster is the fucking MAN!!!!TheToaster is the fucking MAN!!!!TheToaster is the fucking MAN!!!!
TheToaster is the fucking MAN!!!!TheToaster is the fucking MAN!!!!TheToaster is the fucking MAN!!!!TheToaster is the fucking MAN!!!!TheToaster is the fucking MAN!!!!TheToaster is the fucking MAN!!!!TheToaster is the fucking MAN!!!!TheToaster is the fucking MAN!!!!
iTrader Score: 7 reviews
Default

Ring Gear on backwards?
TheToaster is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-07-2016, 06:32 PM   #20 (permalink)
Brokedick Millionaire
 
transzex's Avatar
 
iTrader: (59)
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Cincity OH
Posts: 40,183
Rep Power: 108 transzex is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !transzex is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !transzex is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !transzex is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !transzex is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !
transzex is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !transzex is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !transzex is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !transzex is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !transzex is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !transzex is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !transzex is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !transzex is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !transzex is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !transzex is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !transzex is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !transzex is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !
iTrader Score: 59 reviews
Default

Figure out which gear it doesn't make the noise while car is on jack stands, likely the roller bearing for that gear.

You tore the trans down and apart, but didn't check them, but those in a new bearing kit and the noise is still there.
__________________
Mista Bone



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Quote:
Originally Posted by patprimmer RIP
I will always feed an inquisitive mind, prod a lazy noob and blast a disrespectful bum.
transzex is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the D-series.org forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:
Security Question
*Required, this field is not shown to others: While balancing on a piece of wood, two inches by four inches known as a 2x4, john and his friend sally both spotted a dalmatian inside a truck with sirens, headed to put out a fire. State what kind of animal is mentioned in the sentence above.
Insurance
Please select your insurance company (Optional)

Log-in



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


iconAll times are GMT -8. The time now is 05:13 PM. | Welcome to Forum, please register to access all of our features.