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Old 01-16-2016, 07:46 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default transmission slipping or something else?

About a month a go, I ended up re-building a D16Y7 mini me which was in my car, I've finished and the engine sounds great, and sounds super smooth without ANY check engine light.

The only problem I'm having is the transmission. The transmission is an automatic, I turn on the car and and put in in reverse, everything good so far, the problem Is when I put the car on drive, I press the gas pedal, and even though the car does drive it's soooo slow, I can even smash the gas pedal to the floor when the car is stopped and it accelerates super sloww... (when I was expecting a burnout)

When the car gets up to speed, it does shift properly without slipping or problems, although it's shifting at high rpms..


What could cause this, I've been told the following:

1 ignition coil, yes my ignition coil is weak, could this cause this?

2 clogged fuel filter/bad fuel pump, again could this cause the issue?

3 a bad TPS... ummm I'm guessing it's fine, since it's not towing a code...??

4 clogged catalytic converter... this would make sense BUT the car starts up fine without any struggle and NO check engine light.

5 shift solenoid..??

Help will be highly apreciated!! Tags on the car are due next month and I need to have it smogged.
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Old 01-16-2016, 08:24 PM   #2 (permalink)
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When you are mashing the pedal to the ground does the engine RPM rise quickly without car movement? Does the car accelerate fine in reverse?
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Old 01-16-2016, 08:53 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by jetrinka View Post
When you are mashing the pedal to the ground does the engine RPM rise quickly without car movement? Does the car accelerate fine in reverse?
Did this 2 weeks ago, and what I can remember (60% sure)is that the car is sluggish without high rpms when I smash the gas pedal, high rpm's are only wile the car is already running... in reverse it seemed fine although I didn't go fast.

Wile the car is already running it does pick up speed and shifts fine, but the car shifts at 3000-4000rpm

I'll give it a try first thing in the morning, and I'll report back.
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Old 01-16-2016, 09:36 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Your location and temp outside.

Does the rpms flare but the car tries to move? Try putting it in D2 and see what happens. You will be locked into second gear but should have no "flaring" of the rpms, just normal torque convertor stall speeds.

Does the 96-00 have a trans cable adjustment from the throttle body?

Lastly, have you checked cam timing and ignition timing since rebuild?
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Old 01-16-2016, 10:25 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by transzex View Post
Your location and temp outside.

Does the rpms flare but the car tries to move? Try putting it in D2 and see what happens. You will be locked into second gear but should have no "flaring" of the rpms, just normal torque convertor stall speeds.

Does the 96-00 have a trans cable adjustment from the throttle body?

Lastly, have you checked cam timing and ignition timing since rebuild?
I'm located in a small town called Turlock here in northern cali, when I ran the car, it was around ~45f

From what I can remember there are no rpm flares. It basically does this:

I either smash the throttle, or press the Throttle normally, the rpm won't go as high and car will run a bit slugish until it starts to shift ---- when the car does shift, it will pick up speed and shift every ~3000/4000rpm. When the car does shift, it shifts smooth and no signs of slipping. Really hard to describe, I'll post a video tomorrow.

No the 96-00 don't have any tranny cables.

Yeah I've checked the cam timing, prior to this issue, when I was building the engine I couldn't get the timing belt on... was a noob and couldn't get it tight, ended up spending 2 days trying to get it right, which was causing the engine not to start due to bad timing. But that's been fixed, timing belt is tight, and everything lines up properly. And yeah I'm 100% sure timing is correct. As for ig timing it's fine too.
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Old 01-16-2016, 10:55 PM   #6 (permalink)
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One in a million newbs, wish there were more like you on here.

What about the cable from the console shifter/selector to the trans itself? While it shouldn't need adjusting there are sections in the FSM (Factory Service Manual) for checking it, likely checking the ignition timing IMHO.
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Old 01-16-2016, 11:13 PM   #7 (permalink)
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you are experiencing what I was going through when I first got my 97 dx

first things first, go to honda, grab a new o-ring for the lockup solenoid near the distributor.

Pop the lockup off, and see if its clogged up or crappy at all.

The lockup has nothing to do with your situation, but it is a VERY good indicator of transmission fluid life and condition. The mesh inside should blow perfectly clean with one small spray of brake cleaner. If it stays stained or clogged, keep at it. Get it nice and clean.


I highly recommend you going to walmart or whoever sells synthetic ATF the cheapest that is marked compatable with honda. buy 3 5quart jugs


remove the clamps from the ATF cooler lines. have an assistance hold a bucket or drain pan under them (raise car up if necessary) and fire up the car. Watch for which line spits fluid out. shut off as soon as you find out.

Lets pretend it was the left line, closest to passenger fender. Reconnect it, it is the tranny outlet hose.

Disconnect the other line. This means fluid goes out from tranny, into cooler, and out to your drainpan or bucket.


Grab a funnel, add 2 quarts of fluid if you know its level already. have an assistant fire up the car. IDLE. do not rev.

Add fluid to dipstick hole via funnel. acth fluid coming out cooler hose. If its coming out FAR faster than you are pouring in, do 30 second bursts of running. Get a rough idea of the amount coming out and going in.


No matter what, use up that first jug. If it is like my tranny was, it will take TWO jugs for the fluid to come clean.

Once it changes to fresh cherry, stop engine. Do a final drain via drain bolt/plug.


Do normal top off. add 2.5 quarts and go form there.

let the engine idle until the tranny dipstick feels warm and the fluid on it feels like its hot. Radiator fans should kick in quite a few times before this happens. If not, you might have a thermostat stuck or a lazy fan switch, but that is another issue not discussed now.


Once fluid is leveled off (again, no revving) go for a drive.

If you notice a sever difference, take it easy and do a follow up drain and refill about 2 months from now, mostly to verify the transmission is indeed flushed out and clean.



IF YOU DO NOT notice any difference what so ever, you have a mechanical problem and you need to start looking for another transmission, or a rebuild kit.
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Old 01-16-2016, 11:16 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by transzex View Post
One in a million newbs, wish there were more like you on here.

What about the cable from the console shifter/selector to the trans itself? While it shouldn't need adjusting there are sections in the FSM (Factory Service Manual) for checking it, likely checking the ignition timing IMHO.

shifter cables rarely need to be touched on the automatics. More than likely it is simnply a matter of inspecting for damage
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Old 01-17-2016, 12:08 AM   #9 (permalink)
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with the rpm's remaining stable and hitting the torque converters stall means one of two things, your either starting off in the wrong gear or your engine is not making enough power to reach stall.

I would assume the latter is correct, seeing as this is a mini-me swap you could be one complete tooth off causing alot of retarded cam timing and ign timing. As a result the engine cannot create enough torque to overcome the torque converter. however i could be wrong about this as the op stated it was correct.

Otherwise your starting in the wrong gear, tps could be bad, solenoids plugged ect.

you can try unbolting the catalytic converter and just taking a trip around the block to see if its plugged, ive seen stranger things.

When shifting into drive you should feel a solid "thud" it will slide in and then positively lock. You can exasperate this by revving the engine to around 1500 rpm's and then putting it into drive. If you feel nothing or very little your in the wrong gear or slipping first.
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Old 01-17-2016, 02:10 AM   #10 (permalink)
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I think we need a video, I assume you have a DX automatic with a vtec head? Which vtec head?

You are talking about the transmission shifting in high RPMS at 3000-4000, but how sluggish it is at the beginning. I am not entirely sure anything is wrong, you might just be experiencing a honda engine that starts to wake up at 4000 and a transmission that wants to keep the engine at 2000.

For perspective: in my manual 1998 DX with a y8 head If I wanted to accelerate quickly I would rev the engine all the way to 7k before shifting, it was not uncommon for me to reach merging speeds accelerating onto the freeway in second gear on a 5 speed up to around 65MPH.

It does not sound like the tranny is slipping
Clogged cats get worse with more air and higher revs, so that seems unlikely
Your mechanical timijg might be off depending on the head timing gear
What are you doing for an ECU?
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Old 01-17-2016, 06:45 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattliston View Post
you are experiencing what I was going through when I first got my 97 dx

first things first, go to honda, grab a new o-ring for the lockup solenoid near the distributor.

Pop the lockup off, and see if its clogged up or crappy at all.

The lockup has nothing to do with your situation, but it is a VERY good indicator of transmission fluid life and condition. The mesh inside should blow perfectly clean with one small spray of brake cleaner. If it stays stained or clogged, keep at it. Get it nice and clean.


I highly recommend you going to walmart or whoever sells synthetic ATF the cheapest that is marked compatable with honda. buy 3 5quart jugs


remove the clamps from the ATF cooler lines. have an assistance hold a bucket or drain pan under them (raise car up if necessary) and fire up the car. Watch for which line spits fluid out. shut off as soon as you find out.

Lets pretend it was the left line, closest to passenger fender. Reconnect it, it is the tranny outlet hose.

Disconnect the other line. This means fluid goes out from tranny, into cooler, and out to your drainpan or bucket.


Grab a funnel, add 2 quarts of fluid if you know its level already. have an assistant fire up the car. IDLE. do not rev.

Add fluid to dipstick hole via funnel. acth fluid coming out cooler hose. If its coming out FAR faster than you are pouring in, do 30 second bursts of running. Get a rough idea of the amount coming out and going in.


No matter what, use up that first jug. If it is like my tranny was, it will take TWO jugs for the fluid to come clean.

Once it changes to fresh cherry, stop engine. Do a final drain via drain bolt/plug.


Do normal top off. add 2.5 quarts and go form there.

let the engine idle until the tranny dipstick feels warm and the fluid on it feels like its hot. Radiator fans should kick in quite a few times before this happens. If not, you might have a thermostat stuck or a lazy fan switch, but that is another issue not discussed now.


Once fluid is leveled off (again, no revving) go for a drive.

If you notice a sever difference, take it easy and do a follow up drain and refill about 2 months from now, mostly to verify the transmission is indeed flushed out and clean.

IF YOU DO NOT notice any difference what so ever, you have a mechanical problem and you need to start looking for another transmission, or a rebuild kit.
Thanks for the awesome info! Ill try this first thing in the morning.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cervan View Post
with the rpm's remaining stable and hitting the torque converters stall means one of two things, your either starting off in the wrong gear or your engine is not making enough power to reach stall.

I would assume the latter is correct, seeing as this is a mini-me swap you could be one complete tooth off causing alot of retarded cam timing and ign timing. As a result the engine cannot create enough torque to overcome the torque converter. however i could be wrong about this as the op stated it was correct.

Otherwise your starting in the wrong gear, tps could be bad, solenoids plugged ect.

you can try unbolting the catalytic converter and just taking a trip around the block to see if its plugged, ive seen stranger things.

When shifting into drive you should feel a solid "thud" it will slide in and then positively lock. You can exasperate this by revving the engine to around 1500 rpm's and then putting it into drive. If you feel nothing or very little your in the wrong gear or slipping first.
That's what I'm thinking (read bellow)

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoelEspinoza View Post
I think we need a video, I assume you have a DX automatic with a vtec head? Which vtec head?

You are talking about the transmission shifting in high RPMS at 3000-4000, but how sluggish it is at the beginning. I am not entirely sure anything is wrong, you might just be experiencing a honda engine that starts to wake up at 4000 and a transmission that wants to keep the engine at 2000.

For perspective: in my manual 1998 DX with a y8 head If I wanted to accelerate quickly I would rev the engine all the way to 7k before shifting, it was not uncommon for me to reach merging speeds accelerating onto the freeway in second gear on a 5 speed up to around 65MPH.

It does not sound like the tranny is slipping
Clogged cats get worse with more air and higher revs, so that seems unlikely
Your mechanical timijg might be off depending on the head timing gear
What are you doing for an ECU?
Well I tried to get a video up today but It was a no go. I ended up replacing the following:

*Fuel Pump
*Fuel Filter
*Ignition Coil

Although it did turn on after the new parts.... sadly its not turning on anymore, it just cranks, which makes me believe I do have a "tooth" off in my mechanical timing.... Ive checked:

*Fuel Pressure (obviously good)
*Spark (yes I got spark)

When it did turn on, car ran in low RPM's and If I ended up putting the car on any gear (drive, reverse etc.) the car would die, ill clean the IACV, and check vacuum hoses.

IF timing is off, the question is.. HOW? The way I installed the timing belt was:
Lined up the white mark on the crank > lined up the 2 marks on the cam gear while having the "up" up > installed the timing belt > wile holding the cam gear I moved the crank counter clock until the belt got "tight" making sure the cam gear didn't move > lastly got the tensioner tight.

Or could it be I'm using a different cam gear? the cam gear the car had when I got it was a B7 cam gear and I was told it was the wrong one for the D16Y7 mini me, so since its a Y8 head I ended up getting a Y8 cam gear.

Ill get the car running tomorrow and ill upload the video..

Thanks!
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Old 01-17-2016, 06:55 PM   #12 (permalink)
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y7 and y8 are the same.....

set crank to tdc, then set cam to tdc, then use a wiper arm to pull tension on the tensioner and tighten. also, before you roll it over to double check, throw some white out or nail polish on the belt and the marks just to make sure it doesn't skip a tooth
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Old 01-18-2016, 02:03 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Well wile removing the ring cover off, I noticed brownish/whitish oil, we're the vtec solenoid is located, severe "white" oil on top of the cylinder bolts.... Although I'm not loosing water in the radiator (haven't added coolant until it runs fine) and oil levels aren't rising, I'm guessing water is leaking into the oil.... problem after problem, and since I have no signs of a cracked head(car doesn't overheat) and a new head gasket.. I decided for a mechanic to check it out...

I'll report back within this week to sort out this tranny issue...
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Old 01-18-2016, 04:26 PM   #14 (permalink)
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could be condensation from the valve cover
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Old 01-18-2016, 04:44 PM   #15 (permalink)
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I have experienced that type of condensation buildup under the valve cover. It's caused by not getting to operating temp/sitting for long periods.
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Old 01-18-2016, 07:06 PM   #16 (permalink)
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hence the long drives in the CRX and CRV....
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Old 01-18-2016, 07:38 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Ever since Ive been working in town rather than 30+ minutes away from home, Ive gone on nice long drives at least once every 2 weeks.

Ive noticed over time that the car behaves much better for a few days after those long drives.


With the cold weather and allthe idiots on the road this season, Ive had no chance to really go for a long cruise for the last thousand miles.

Im very curious to see how my car behaves if I decide a 2 hour drive after work is worthwhile

Maybe that will happen when I figure out how to keep this goddamn manual window in its tracks (I smoke, I must have window half or more down to smoke in a car)
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