MFactory 1.565 3rd now in possession! Let the planning begin! Seeking input. - D-series.org

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Old 01-16-2016, 05:40 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default MFactory 1.565 3rd now in possession! Let the planning begin! Seeking input.

Hey everyone.

In a previous post I was asking for opinions as to whether or not I should go with an MFactory 1.565 3rd gear and move OEM 3rd to 4th, or get an MFactory 4.7 final drive.

Here's the thread:
https://www.d-series.org/forums/trans...k-lapping.html

Well…. I GOT IT!!! Thanks to bake82, another member on this exceptional forum and fellow Ontarian, I have the coveted 1.565 3rd gear. Because he's such a good guy, he threw in a 1.033 from a 4-speed.

Now it's time to start planning…

The S40B000 currently in my '93 del Sol Si has a Quaife LSD. I was either going to remove this transmission, rebuild with Synchrotech carbon synchros and install the 1.565 or do the same with a spare transmission I have sitting in the garage.

The stock S40 gearing is as follows:
1. 3.250
2. 1.909
3. 1.125
4. 0.909
5. 0.702
FD. 4.25

Here's what I was planning:
1. 3.250 (stock)
2. 1.909 (stock)
3. 1.565 (MFactory)
4. 1.125 (stock 3rd)
5. 0.702 (stock – for long drives)
FD. 4.25 (stock)

But I was thinking… Since I also have the 1.033, perhaps this may be an option:

1. 3.250 (stock)
2. 1.909 (stock)
3. 1.565 (MFactory)
4. 1.033
5. 0.702 (stock – for long drives)
FD. 4.25 (stock)

The 1.033 is slightly longer than the 1.125 which may make the shift from 4th to 5th less dramatic.

The car is very rarely driven and if it is, it's usually just to get to the track which requires highway time. If it's autocross, I'm rarely into third with the stock gearing. For the shorter lapping tracks around here, I'm never past the end of third with the stock gearing.

However, with the shorter 1.565, I will definitely be moving into fourth on the lapping tracks and perhaps very rarely at autocross. Going from 1.565 to 1.125 would make for nice short gears to really help keep the car in the power band. Going 1.565 to 1.033 may help with the longer straightaways and general driving.

Keep in mind, this will eventually be a dedicated track car and towed to the events.

What do you think?
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1993 Honda Civic del Sol Si.
The old: NA d16z6 - 158whp - RIP May 22, 2017 (dropped exhaust valve)
The new: OBD1 JDM GSR 1.8L DOHC VTEC - 198whp, 138wtrq, Integra Type-R S80 LSD transmission.

Last edited by curlybandit; 01-16-2016 at 08:10 AM.
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Old 01-16-2016, 10:17 AM   #2 (permalink)
 
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No such thing as a 1.125. I think you mean 1.250. Do not use the 1.033 after the 1.565, the RPM drop will be pretty bad and the RPM jump will be just as bad. Use the 1.250. It will need to be machined for correct fitment. I also suggest running the 1.000 5th. If you have a 1.250 3rd in your car right now, skip 4th gear and that will tell you if you can handle a stock with or not.
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Old 01-16-2016, 10:47 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquafina View Post
No such thing as a 1.125. I think you mean 1.250. Do not use the 1.033 after the 1.565, the RPM drop will be pretty bad and the RPM jump will be just as bad. Use the 1.250. It will need to be machined for correct fitment. I also suggest running the 1.000 5th. If you have a 1.250 3rd in your car right now, skip 4th gear and that will tell you if you can handle a stock with or not.
Thanks for the response Aquafina!

You're correct. I made an error. Stock 3rd is 1.250. Good to know about 3rd needing to be machined. I'll start looking into where I can get that done.

I've shifted from stoc 3rd to stock 5th before. It is a drop but nothing that isn't manageable.

Thanks!
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1993 Honda Civic del Sol Si.
The old: NA d16z6 - 158whp - RIP May 22, 2017 (dropped exhaust valve)
The new: OBD1 JDM GSR 1.8L DOHC VTEC - 198whp, 138wtrq, Integra Type-R S80 LSD transmission.
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Old 01-16-2016, 11:00 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Assuming you do these gears:
1. 3.250 (stock)
2. 1.909 (stock)
3. 1.565 (MFactory)
4. 1.250 (stock 3rd)
5. 0.702 (stock – for long drives)
FD. 4.25 (stock)

I drive with a b16 transmission with stock 1-4, LS 5th and 4.266FD. I can tell you that my 1-4 feel REALLY short together, nice for acceleration, but when I am casually cruising on flat ground I shift into 4th by about 35mph, which is honestly kinda irritating. 5th for me is a pretty good stretch from 4th, certainly doable, and nice for highway cruising, but I have to wind it out a bit in 4th just to not bog when I hit 5th. Your 4-5 will be spread out even further.

For perspective when I am trying to accelerate hard I shift at 9200, with your lower shift points and closer gears they will feel a LOT closer to you.

This is what the proposed transmission will look like compared to mine, mine is green, yours is blue:


Your 1-2 will be the same as they are now, 2nd and 3rd are going to feel like they are nearly standing on top of each other, with 4th close enough to be nearly a Ménage à trois, and you will have to wrap it out to 5400 in 4th to hit 70 on the freeway, then drop into 5th at 3k.

I wouldn't want that in a daily, but if you are on tracks were you are currently having to shift 2-3, or shift 3-4 instead of staying in a single gear, or on a track where you have to use 2-3 currently but are dropping out of your power band it might benefit you.
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Old 01-16-2016, 12:12 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquafina View Post
No such thing as a 1.125. I think you mean 1.250. Do not use the 1.033 after the 1.565, the RPM drop will be pretty bad and the RPM jump will be just as bad. Use the 1.250. It will need to be machined for correct fitment. I also suggest running the 1.000 5th. If you have a 1.250 3rd in your car right now, skip 4th gear and that will tell you if you can handle a stock with or not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoelEspinoza View Post
Assuming you do these gears:
1. 3.250 (stock)
2. 1.909 (stock)
3. 1.565 (MFactory)
4. 1.250 (stock 3rd)
5. 0.702 (stock – for long drives)
FD. 4.25 (stock)

I drive with a b16 transmission with stock 1-4, LS 5th and 4.266FD. I can tell you that my 1-4 feel REALLY short together, nice for acceleration, but when I am casually cruising on flat ground I shift into 4th by about 35mph, which is honestly kinda irritating. 5th for me is a pretty good stretch from 4th, certainly doable, and nice for highway cruising, but I have to wind it out a bit in 4th just to not bog when I hit 5th. Your 4-5 will be spread out even further.

For perspective when I am trying to accelerate hard I shift at 9200, with your lower shift points and closer gears they will feel a LOT closer to you.

This is what the proposed transmission will look like compared to mine, mine is green, yours is blue:


Your 1-2 will be the same as they are now, 2nd and 3rd are going to feel like they are nearly standing on top of each other, with 4th close enough to be nearly a Ménage à trois, and you will have to wrap it out to 5400 in 4th to hit 70 on the freeway, then drop into 5th at 3k.

I wouldn't want that in a daily, but if you are on tracks were you are currently having to shift 2-3, or shift 3-4 instead of staying in a single gear, or on a track where you have to use 2-3 currently but are dropping out of your power band it might benefit you.
Wow!!

So much great information!!

Thanks Joel!

Regarding the current shift points, I'll be doing a head build this winter/spring. I've ordered a camshaft, valve springs and Ti retainers from Rocket Motorsports and will be installing them into a spare d16z6 head that will be getting a port and polish done.

I anticipate to increase the shift points. The engine is limited to the current conservative 7200RPM redline so I don't float the valves. It has a stage 2 Bisi cam but stock everything else.
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1993 Honda Civic del Sol Si.
The old: NA d16z6 - 158whp - RIP May 22, 2017 (dropped exhaust valve)
The new: OBD1 JDM GSR 1.8L DOHC VTEC - 198whp, 138wtrq, Integra Type-R S80 LSD transmission.

Last edited by curlybandit; 01-16-2016 at 12:33 PM.
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Old 01-16-2016, 12:42 PM   #6 (permalink)
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If you have never played with the zeal tranny calculator, you should, it is pretty nice.

Honda Transmission Calculator by ZealAutowerks

You can graph 2 transmission and overlay them to see the difference. You can also graph a transmission and mouse over those lines to see the RPMs in each gear at each speed. So if you know you are shifting at 7500 and 40MPH from first to second, you can hover over second at 40MPH and see what RPM you will be at.
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Old 01-16-2016, 12:47 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoelEspinoza View Post
If you have never played with the zeal tranny calculator, you should, it is pretty nice.

Honda Transmission Calculator by ZealAutowerks

You can graph 2 transmission and overlay them to see the difference. You can also graph a transmission and mouse over those lines to see the RPMs in each gear at each speed. So if you know you are shifting at 7500 and 40MPH from first to second, you can hover over second at 40MPH and see what RPM you will be at.
I've only ever used the Zeal compression calculator. Never the transmission calculator.

Thanks.
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1993 Honda Civic del Sol Si.
The old: NA d16z6 - 158whp - RIP May 22, 2017 (dropped exhaust valve)
The new: OBD1 JDM GSR 1.8L DOHC VTEC - 198whp, 138wtrq, Integra Type-R S80 LSD transmission.
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Old 01-17-2016, 12:33 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Old 01-18-2016, 02:23 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Im just running the mfactory 3rd with the old 3rd flipped and milled 1mm.
Its ok for now but sometime I want to get the MFactory LSD 1st and 5th
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Old 01-19-2016, 03:17 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by colelmt View Post
Im just running the mfactory 3rd with the old 3rd flipped and milled 1mm.
Its ok for now but sometime I want to get the MFactory LSD 1st and 5th
One step at a time.

Going to see how it is with the MFactory 3rd with stock 3rd to 4th at the tracks I go to around here. Don't really see a use for a 5th since I've never had to use it. We'll see how it goes.

Also, I'm already breaking the planned budget for this year. Was only planning on a head build but how could I resist a short-gear transmission!
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1993 Honda Civic del Sol Si.
The old: NA d16z6 - 158whp - RIP May 22, 2017 (dropped exhaust valve)
The new: OBD1 JDM GSR 1.8L DOHC VTEC - 198whp, 138wtrq, Integra Type-R S80 LSD transmission.
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Old 01-27-2016, 11:51 PM   #11 (permalink)
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You've never had a use for 5th because its such a piece of shit gear.

Get the 1.00 and you will have a use for it.

Who wants to do it more than once. I have a thread where I did all this shit in my college bedroom.

Next time you do it will be on something bigger and better. I'm mixing a KA, and D21 Nissan Transmission now. Just did a Subaru 6 speed, and a 5 speed. And a Miata 5spd before that. And a Supra R154 next. Find some inspiring people and get with it. Bone, and Bense were mine as far as transmissions are concerned, and look at me now, I was just a dumbass when I joined in 2011.

Get your practice on your cheap on Honda Civic D Series.
Learn, Read, Touch Parts. Every little groove and feature has a reason, try to figure out why!

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Old 02-03-2016, 05:09 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheToaster View Post
You've never had a use for 5th because its such a piece of shit gear.

Get the 1.00 and you will have a use for it.

Who wants to do it more than once. I have a thread where I did all this shit in my college bedroom.

Next time you do it will be on something bigger and better. I'm mixing a KA, and D21 Nissan Transmission now. Just did a Subaru 6 speed, and a 5 speed. And a Miata 5spd before that. And a Supra R154 next. Find some inspiring people and get with it. Bone, and Bense were mine as far as transmissions are concerned, and look at me now, I was just a dumbass when I joined in 2011.

Get your practice on your cheap on Honda Civic D Series.
Learn, Read, Touch Parts. Every little groove and feature has a reason, try to figure out why!
Thanks for the inspirational message.

I know that eventually I'll want something bigger, faster, more exciting, etc.

Let's see how long this little project can keep my attention.
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1993 Honda Civic del Sol Si.
The old: NA d16z6 - 158whp - RIP May 22, 2017 (dropped exhaust valve)
The new: OBD1 JDM GSR 1.8L DOHC VTEC - 198whp, 138wtrq, Integra Type-R S80 LSD transmission.
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