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Old 07-04-2005, 08:52 AM   #1 (permalink)
Dr.Scott
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Default Don't Want to Make Same Mistake

History: My first love was a '69 Impala SS 427 with a 4-speed Muncie M-22. After headers, cam and Holley, real simple shit, everyone did it without knowing a thing about engines, I trashed the first transmission. Got another from the wrecker and had it looked over by someone in the know and got his blessing. Sure enough, later that year #2 tranny went bye bye. Not fucking around this time, I had #3 rebuilt and blueprinted. Following summer, that one started making noise. Hell with it, I thought, fed up with these M-22 Rock Crushers, replaced it with Turbo 400. Good and reliable but not the same, sold the car.

Next car: '69 Charger R/T 440 with 727 auto. Preferring a manual, pulled the 727 and installed a 4-speed. Loved the 4-speed but even with bundles of money invested in it (about $2,500 back in '77), times were inconsistent, anywhere from 9.18 (my best) to 9.40's. I came to the conclusion, I can build 'em just can't drive 'em, should have stuck with the 727.

I think for the D16Y8 we're going to build, haven't bought the car yet, we'll go with an automatic. Any issues with the strength and durability of the Honda Auto Tranny's? It's the torque I'm concerned about, that's what killed the M-22's not the HP. I'm sold on the cryogenic treatment and will send the internals out for that but is there anything else? How do I modify the valve body for crisper shifting? Is this like the Turbo 400's and 727's?, I haven't taken one apart. What about the final drive ratio. I had 4.88's in my Charger and it got into the sweet RPM zone in a hurry not to mention the view of the clouds. Don't want anything that radical, maybe something in the high 3's, low 4's perhaps, what are the choices. Thanks guys.

Dr. Scott
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Old 07-04-2005, 08:59 AM   #2 (permalink)
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yes......... the main thing is that no one makes an LSD for auto's. tranzex and bspeed are your best bets for these ??. IMO, 5 speed is the only way to go.
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Old 07-04-2005, 04:31 PM   #3 (permalink)
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whew, too much old school jibba jabba.......
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Old 07-04-2005, 04:46 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 9000_red
whew, too much old school jibba jabba.......
bah, old school is the shiz, i still love my domestic v-8s
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Old 07-04-2005, 04:47 PM   #5 (permalink)
 
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Go manual, you'll hate yourself if you don't. Plus as Richie said, there aren't any auto LSD's being made to speak of.
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Old 07-04-2005, 04:53 PM   #6 (permalink)
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give level 10 a try. honestlt a stock Honda auto is shit
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Old 07-05-2005, 01:46 AM   #7 (permalink)
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M22 behind a 396 BBC with 3.42 gear, didn't even waver when starting from a stop in THIRD GEAR!!!!!!!!! Car was a TH400 swapped in a M22, now back to a TH400 with a 3500 stall.........and a 522 BBC!

9000 red.....without us "old school" V8 dudes, the young crowd would be TOTALLY clueless. Some of us old farts like TEACHING the same way we were taught when a young kid.

Dr.Scott.......sound like your M22 blues was from a misaligned bellhousing. It happen on BBC 4 speeds due to the engine torque bending the tranny to bell housing mounting face.

Honda slush box......ditch it.......

After your son gets some miles under his belt!!!!!!

The Honda automatic is weak, not even a serviceable filter!!!!!
10-15 seconds of brake torquing = fried fluid!!!!
Get a cooler ASAP!!!!!!!

I've always suggested changing the tranny fluid every 3rd oil change. When you drain a Honda slushbox your only getting 1/3 of the fluid out. So frequent changes are needed.

A good Autometer 8k tach with a shift light and a 5 speed will be just as consistant as your old slushbox Mopar. Get a MSD 6AL and chip it for 200 rpm above shift point, never lift off the gas pedal......

Before swapping, take the boy to the strip. Son/Dad bonding plus the track time will help in the long run making him more consistant. I have about 900 passes in my 93 DX HB, on the 4th set of slicks.

Our first Import Day at local dragstrip, they let you get as many time passes before 12:30 cutoff instead of the normal 3 time passes on a bracket night.

I made 13 full passes......10 within one hour!

13 passes between 15.11 and 15.18. throw out the hi/lo and 11 passes between 15.13 and 15.16........with a 5 speed!

4.88's in the Charger......28" or 30" slicks?
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Old 07-05-2005, 12:20 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Transzex: Thanks for the moral support. As for the slicks, I've gone into a permanent brain cramp. Pretty sure they were 30's. I'd get them cheap off a guy that ran A-Econo Altered with a 460 in. BBC. As for the misalignment, you're probably right. In hindsight, it's the weakest link isn't it? If I'd been older and more experienced at the time, I would have no doubt tried to understand why it was happening. Never had that with the Charger, but then again I had that steel bell housing and the only reason I had it was because I was so fucking scared of getting my legs cut off.

Also, like you said, it really pisses me off when I hear comments like those here from the young kids. Do any of them know what 9.18 sec. feels like or what kind of work it takes to get to that point, let alone the $$$. I still remember a night at a hotel with the guys from Reher, Sheppard & Morrison, you remember those Pro Stock guys don't you? I was hanging on every word they said, wanting to learn more and them more than willing to share their knowledge with me. I think I was only 18 at the time and I had nothing but respect for what they taught me. The younger generation (not all) may poke fun at us "oldies" but until they can put an ear to a valve cover or pick out a change in engine pitch at 8500 RPM without the benefit of an ECU, then pick your vehicle, bring your pink slip and meet me at the track.

As for the Tranny, you've convinced me Transzex - the kid's going to have to learn to drive a 5 speed.

Finally, to all the sceptics, I will find torque in this motor yet. I sold my Charger to help pay for my engineering degree and I'm not going to let that go to waste. It all comes down to the science of this sport.

Dr. Scott
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Old 07-05-2005, 12:43 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Scott

Also, like you said, it really pisses me off when I hear comments like those here from the young kids.
Well, not that Im young (depends on who you ask) but you have tons of respect from my corner, and anyone who thinks different is a moron.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Scott
Finally, to all the sceptics, I will find torque in this motor yet. I sold my Charger to help pay for my engineering degree and I'm not going to let that go to waste. It all comes down to the science of this sport.

Dr. Scott

It CAN be done, its a little tough, Im sure you will be able to squeeze out some good #'s...good luck!
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Old 07-05-2005, 07:46 PM   #10 (permalink)
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i totally got respect for what you have done and the fact that you're looking into something new. it just sounds like something my dad would post... don't take it the wrong way fellas. i'm going back to the noob forum now...
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