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Old 05-24-2010, 09:59 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Very strange transmission problem.

So yesterday was the first autocross of the season and my first time running on race tires (r888's). Went 3 runs with no problems and launching a 3k, like i usually do even on street tires. 4th run i go to launch but decided to launch a lil higher at 4k, the car started to wheel hop, went about a foot and then the tires locked and stop the car dead. The car still started and ran fine and the shifter still moved, put it in neutral and let the clutch out and it stalled like it was in gear. Looked around and didn't see nething wrong and was rushed to get out of the way so i ended up driving it with the shifter in neutral and it fealt like 2nd gear. I even tried every gear to see if it would go but the only gear that worked was 2nd but even when i shifter to 2nd u didn't hear or feel it click in but every other gear would. I even drove it home in 2nd and verified it was 2nd. After i got home i was messing around with it and tryin to get it to go into other gears and 2nd ended up disengaging and the car drove like normal.

Today i drove it to my buddies house and we pulled it out and took it aparty to see what was wrong, but everything looks fine. All synchros are good and no pieces in the case. Shift forks are good (they're the steel ones). Since me and my buddy have been mechanics for years and are stumped about what caused this, this is aimed towards the honda transmission experts. WTF HAPPENED? Pretty much when i launched 2nd gea engaged some how, and since i was already in first it locked up the tranny.
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Old 05-24-2010, 10:47 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I pray you took pics upon tearing it apart, if not now you know.

Also I assume 96-00 chassis and tranny due to the steel forks reference????

Only thing I can really think of offhand it the motor mounts, 96-00 SUCK and effects 1-2 and 2-3 shifts at times.
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Old 05-25-2010, 07:11 AM   #3 (permalink)
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It is not possible for 1st and 2nd to be engaged at the same time unless there is debris causing it (debris between the gear ID and collar OD). How far out had the CSB walked?

I don't think the mounts would cause it. My mounts are extremely worn (96 Civic) and don't cause any shifting problems. The only time they have caused a problem was when the driver side mount completely broke.
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Old 05-25-2010, 08:32 AM   #4 (permalink)
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The car is an 93 DX hatch with all factory mounts(including the front torque mounts). The transmisison in the factory D15B7 trans with the matching vin plate. The engine is a D16Y7 with the D15 intake manifold.

And that is exactly why i'm on here trying to figure out how 2nd gear got engaged when i'm in first gear and stuck there even after 2 miles of driving with the shifter in neutral, so no shift collar holding it engaged. The only thing that i can think of is like what u said, something caused it to seize to countershaft. Now i haven't taken the gearset off of the countershaft yet, but the 2nd gearset does spin freely. Not sure what CSB is?

And BTW i didn't mention it before but i had the thing apart 2 years ago to do the ISB and filled it with synchromesh. And just changed the fluid 2 days before the event. So i know what it looked like 2 years ago and i don't see anything different.

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Old 05-25-2010, 08:38 AM   #5 (permalink)
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B7 trans has aluminum shift forks.

If the gear spins freely then there isn't anything binding it up. The 1/2 sleeve can be in 1/2 or N. It is not possible for 1st and 2nd to be engaged by it at the same time. CSB = countershaft bearing. Pull the CS out and look at the bearing. It should be sitting flush with the case.
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Old 05-25-2010, 08:58 AM   #6 (permalink)
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I don't know what to say about the shift forks, unless someone has swapped them out before. I bought the car with it's current setup.

Well there's nothing binding it up now, it freed up when i got back to my house from the event, i was just thinking that if the bearing that the 2nd gear is riding on seized it then it wouldn't turn smoothly now but it seems fine. I understand that the sleeve can only be in 1 or 2 or N, thats why i'm confused by this since the shifter was still in 1st when it happened and there is nothign wrong with the fork. And i'll inspect the CSB when i go back over there, all the gears are out of the case.
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Old 05-25-2010, 11:20 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Hows the diff pin look? Take that diff out for a look-see.
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Old 05-25-2010, 12:30 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLK92_D16 View Post
Hows the diff pin look? Take that diff out for a look-see.
You musta missed the part where it was stuck in 2nd gear, try again.
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Old 05-25-2010, 11:19 PM   #9 (permalink)
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D15B7 tranny doesn't have a vin plate, sounds like a Y7 motor and tranny swap.
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Old 05-25-2010, 11:32 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by SteaveO2 View Post
You musta missed the part where it was stuck in 2nd gear, try again.
heavily worn diff pin would explain the car locking up at the starting line but wouldnt explain the car being stuck in second gear.

Also a picture is worth a thousand words.
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Old 05-26-2010, 04:22 AM   #11 (permalink)
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pics are priceless.

How did the synchro springs look????

Wait, I can't see them due to no pics, see my point?????
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Old 05-26-2010, 09:38 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cervan View Post
heavily worn diff pin would explain the car locking up at the starting line but wouldnt explain the car being stuck in second gear.

Also a picture is worth a thousand words.
I know it would cause the locking, but not my problem, hence why i said he musta missed the stuck in 2nd part.

And i will have pics today, the car is in my buddies garage and i didn't have time to work on it yesterday so just settle down transex, the other day when i posted this thread it was late at night and just came to me to post it here. I was more along the lines hoping this has happened before and someone could give me a simple answer to explain it. Plus this is just to cure my curiousity, the trans isn't going back in to the car neways.
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Old 05-26-2010, 12:11 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by transzex View Post
D15B7 tranny doesn't have a vin plate, sounds like a Y7 motor and tranny swap.
Yes it is the y7 tranny, i was wrong about that. I thought the last time i looked at it that it matched the car, but i was mistaken, i took the pics but won't be able to upload them until tonight.
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Old 05-28-2010, 08:06 AM   #14 (permalink)
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sounds pretty crazy
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Old 05-28-2010, 10:38 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Well i finally got the pics uploaded and my car running again, just not with this transmission in it(got a P4A B000 now). Still don't really know what happened. Synchros look good, synchro springs, shift forks, diff pin, csb, isb, they all look good. All we saw was a few small pieces of steel and the 2nd and reverse gears had some worn teeth, but not real bad, normal for a tranny thats been beat on. Again we still believe that it had to of been the 2nd gear bearing that went out and jammed, wish i wouldn't have gotten it to free up before we took it apart so we could verify it. But neways, here's the pics, tell me if u see nething.








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Old 05-28-2010, 10:39 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Old 05-28-2010, 10:53 AM   #17 (permalink)
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And the video proof of the incident.

YouTube - Broke Transmission.MOV
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Old 05-29-2010, 12:40 AM   #18 (permalink)
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if the roller bearing under second gear exploded it could act like a sprag and lock it into two gears at once.

Both gear stacks need tore apart, I'd start with the countershaft first.
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