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Old 07-19-2018, 08:41 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default I want a stiffer pedal

Hello everyone, I have a 90 hatch and I want to make my brake pedal more stiff. I have driven multiple civics and none seem to have a stiff pedal like mine...but I want more. I already have SS brake lines and integra rear disc conversion. I'm going to be upgrading my brakes in the future because it's going to be a track car, but for now how would I make it stiffer? I wouldn't mind deleting the brake booster since the car is light, but I'd rather not for now. The engagement point is pretty high but I'd like it to be stiff immediately. I'd love to hear you guys thoughts.
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Old 07-19-2018, 09:26 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Stiffer pedal = You'll need to stand on the pedal to stop. The firewall flex comes into play and pedal modulation goes out the window.

Put OEM lines from NAPA back on it instead of the spongy SS lines that have to be replaced every 3-5 years.
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Old 07-19-2018, 09:26 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Shortening the pedal will reduce the throw and consequently make the distance to the engagement point shorter.

Else, delete the booster, or play with the MC diameter. Bigger diameter = More force required but quicker to engagement point. Smaller diameter = Less force but takes longer to reach engagement point.

Or just put a rock under the brake pedal.
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Old 07-20-2018, 06:09 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by transzex View Post
Stiffer pedal = You'll need to stand on the pedal to stop. The firewall flex comes into play and pedal modulation goes out the window.

Put OEM lines from NAPA back on it instead of the spongy SS lines that have to be replaced every 3-5 years.
ive never used SS lines before.

i thought they where to remove sponginess? also why would you have to replace them so often?
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Old 07-20-2018, 07:23 AM   #5 (permalink)
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The newer coated lines don't have all the problems like the old ones did of dust getting in between the braid and teflon. I've had one on the clutch of my Toyota pickup for about 8 years but it probably doesn't see the pressure of a brake system. But it has seen over 100k.
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Old 07-20-2018, 08:39 AM   #6 (permalink)
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If you want a "stiffer" brake pedal, either remove the booster or install a larger brake master cylinder.

Removing the booster will not affect the travel distance of the pedal, but it will significantly increase the force required to engage the braking system. But, that should make your foot more sensitive to feedback in the pedal.

The other method would be to increase the master cylinder diameter. I did have a 1" master and booster off a DC on my CRX, and I liked it at first, but now that I have had more seat time over the past 10 years, I no longer like how dead the pedal feels.

Another benefit of removing the booster, if you left foot brake under throttle (think AutoX), you will no longer have that loss of power assist when the engine isn't pulling vacuum.

My advice would be to go to a booster-less 13/16" master cylinder.
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Old 07-20-2018, 11:22 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by civicdxude View Post
ive never used SS lines before.

i thought they where to remove sponginess? also why would you have to replace them so often?
How does a thinner line prevent flexing? The SS is only there as protection, not to prevent flexing.

I've had two SS line failures, both sleeved and unsleeved, both were at about the 5 year mark.
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Old 07-20-2018, 11:23 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LowFlyin' View Post
If you want a "stiffer" brake pedal, either remove the booster or install a larger brake master cylinder.

Removing the booster will not affect the travel distance of the pedal, but it will significantly increase the force required to engage the braking system. But, that should make your foot more sensitive to feedback in the pedal.

The other method would be to increase the master cylinder diameter. I did have a 1" master and booster off a DC on my CRX, and I liked it at first, but now that I have had more seat time over the past 10 years, I no longer like how dead the pedal feels.

Another benefit of removing the booster, if you left foot brake under throttle (think AutoX), you will no longer have that loss of power assist when the engine isn't pulling vacuum.

My advice would be to go to a booster-less 13/16" master cylinder.
3/4" boosterless on a several time SCCA national champion DA Integra.
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Old 07-20-2018, 11:25 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeerDrinkin View Post
The newer coated lines don't have all the problems like the old ones did of dust getting in between the braid and teflon. I've had one on the clutch of my Toyota pickup for about 8 years but it probably doesn't see the pressure of a brake system. But it has seen over 100k.
Also doesn't see the flexing from suspension travel or when turning.
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Old 07-20-2018, 02:04 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Stiffer return spring?
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Old 07-20-2018, 10:16 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LowFlyin' View Post
If you want a "stiffer" brake pedal, either remove the booster or install a larger brake master cylinder.

Removing the booster will not affect the travel distance of the pedal, but it will significantly increase the force required to engage the braking system. But, that should make your foot more sensitive to feedback in the pedal.

....

Another benefit of removing the booster, if you left foot brake under throttle (think AutoX), you will no longer have that loss of power assist when the engine isn't pulling vacuum.

My advice would be to go to a booster-less 13/16" master cylinder.
We run a 15/16" mc with a deleted booster. This is with a DA brake swap front and rear with EBC yellow pads all around. In removing the booster, we added an adjustable mc push rod and the means to adjust pedal height.

These mods gave us a brake pedal that is really firm, but consistent and easy to modulate. If you want to not do much modification, the best you can do is to increase the mc bore size. Past that, you are left with deleting the booster. This might not be your best choice for a daily driver as the increased pedal pressure will quickly get tiring in regular stop and go driving.
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Old 07-22-2018, 02:06 PM   #12 (permalink)
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You could use one of those master cylinder stopper things that bolt to the strut tower. Originally thought they'd do nothing, but seeing how much the firewall flexes under heavy braking i reckon it'd probably help with pedal feel. Particularly if you choose not to run a booster.
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Old 08-17-2018, 05:20 PM   #13 (permalink)
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I wonder if you changed the prop valve to match rear disc conv.???
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Old 10-06-2018, 05:10 PM   #14 (permalink)
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I just did a rear disc conversion on my 98 civic. I havent got to drive it yet. Some parts of the rear wheels do not spin freely. I am still troubleshooting that. Also I havnt changed the prop valve. I read that since I have a 98 EX that shouldnt have to switch it. Is that true?
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Old 10-08-2018, 08:27 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by transzex View Post
3/4" boosterless on a several time SCCA national champion DA Integra.
Is that an aftermarket MC?
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Old 10-27-2018, 11:19 AM   #16 (permalink)
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FIrewall flex is a big thing with these cars. Using a MC stop of some kind will help a lot. If you have rear drums, make sure they are adjusted as close as possible without dragging. Make sure all the pins are lubed correctly and that everything stays clean. A larger MC will help, but if the firewall is flexing, you are going to be chasing a changing engagement point without really realizing it.
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