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Old 11-02-2015, 09:57 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default anyone doing rallyx or off road racing with their civics?

hard to find others that are playing in the dirt with their civics. anyone around these parts that participate in off road shenanigans with their hondas??



ive been running our 89 rt4wd for the past 7 seasons and have done well so far, but recently my rear struts have gave way. im assuming its cause im running 92-95 coupe struts and the rear spring rates are so minimal, that im going from full compression to full droop back and fourth so much that i overheated the rears and killed them. the fronts seem to be holding up well.

after talking with some of the other competitors, sounds like most all of them have blown rears. almost all these cars are stocker subys both impreza and legacy. so im assuming they are in the same boat. id use the stocker rt springs, but the perch is lower than regular civics to accommodate the beefier springs, so its a no go without massive compression trying to get the longer springs on the standard eg agx struts. looking for ANY real world experience. dont care if you link me elsewhere or what, just need some help finding a good reliable setup. tia!
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Old 11-02-2015, 10:07 AM   #2 (permalink)
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I have an old EG hatch I've been tempted to run rallyx in. There are a ton of events within an hour from me.

In for real-world experience from folks on some budget first-step modifications.
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Old 11-02-2015, 10:13 AM   #3 (permalink)
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My old gutted EK turbo car got turned into a dirt track car, great platform with the cost

LSD helps, so do Konis and a 32mm ASR bar
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Old 11-02-2015, 10:13 AM   #4 (permalink)
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There is a user on here who I forget that did a red EG hatchback for a rally style build.

I want to say he was in new zealand or australia.

It will be back about 4-5 years or so.


Some of the long term users will remember better than me.


Search on here for rally civic. If nothing shows up, use google and filter to this website and search.
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Old 11-02-2015, 10:52 AM   #5 (permalink)
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I ice raced and rallyX'd my civic a whole bunch.
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Old 11-02-2015, 11:25 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by d-serious View Post
I have an old EG hatch I've been tempted to run rallyx in. There are a ton of events within an hour from me.

In for real-world experience from folks on some budget first-step modifications.
if you have events close by, freaking go for it. you wont regret it. most ive laughed in a car since high school. no lie.

i race mine in a stock class and the coupe springs with agx struts work insanely well for the money spent. i will likely go back and replace the rears once i figure out what spring rates i should be using.

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LSD helps, so do Konis and a 32mm ASR bar
no lsd option for the tranny, but a obx d-series lsd can be fitted in the rear diff. once i decide to give up beating down all these cars i race against and move into a prepared or modified class, it is high on the get list.

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There is a user on here who I forget that did a red EG hatchback for a rally style build.
read through the entire thread. zero feedback on setup other than he needed to do some sorting with springs. i will not be dropping that kinda coin for bc stuff designed for street use for experimentation, lol. im a full on cheapskate.

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I ice raced and rallyX'd my civic a whole bunch.
care to share your suspension setup? specifically spring rates and what shocks you like??

looks like stock spring rates for the eg coups are roughly 265f/80r. doesnt look like anyone is sure of those numbers, but those are the ones ive seen more than once. if anyone knows for sure, please post up or link me.

i called gc and they can set me up with a sleeve coilover that had 4" sleeves for the front and 6" for the rear and i can order 8, 9, 10, or 12" spring lengths. dont really want to go this route as it will move me to prepared, but id rather do that than replace my rear shocks every 2 seasons (technically 4 as my wife co-drives most every event). getting kyb to warranty is like pulling teeth. im sure there is notes by my name in their database...doubt they will ever warranty anything for me again.
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Old 11-02-2015, 12:08 PM   #7 (permalink)
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For ice racing I ran my autocross setup, 600F/440R with Koni Yellows and a 24mm rear bar. Too stiff, but worked well enough to win anyways. Rallycross I ran on stock springs and the same koni's.

If I were doing a purpose-built rallyX setup, I'd do a monotube shocks like a bilstein and some sort of dual-rate spring setup, probably around half the total rate of what I was running on the ice.

A local racer/friend who was the PF rallyX national champion a few years ago was at about 300/200 on his EF with bilsteins.
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Old 11-02-2015, 12:16 PM   #8 (permalink)
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This dude had a JRSC RT4WD wagon in Norway doing ice racing with it. Very good build, worth checking out.

https://www.d-series.org/forums/showc...n-project.html
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Old 11-02-2015, 12:52 PM   #9 (permalink)
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heya shenrie!

I was on stock springs and monroe sensatracs. Ksport rally gravels now, springrates are too high but it seems to get the job done so far. finding a wagon length shock with the spring perch in the right spot is the hard part or i would have gone with bilstein HDs for the money.
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Old 11-02-2015, 04:15 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abide View Post
heya shenrie!

I was on stock springs and monroe sensatracs. Ksport rally gravels now, springrates are too high but it seems to get the job done so far. finding a wagon length shock with the spring perch in the right spot is the hard part or i would have gone with bilstein HDs for the money.
eyyy, a fellow 603 resident. Do you run with NER SCCA? I go to a few rallyX's with them a year. Most recently in a geo prism(lol)
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Old 11-02-2015, 05:00 PM   #11 (permalink)
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eyyy, a fellow 603 resident. Do you run with NER SCCA? I go to a few rallyX's with them a year. Most recently in a geo prism(lol)
im the goldie RT in Mod All. had a shot at second/third in class last event i think, then the CV took a crap on me and i drove home 3wd. it happens. Not to mention Chang Kim's del sol that downright embarrasses my times.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDJWCt6OJCw
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/...lt.htm?dl=0%20 3rd fastest run out of the gate on run 1. I think it's more than capable for sure. My old blue even pulled a FTD in new orleans once and it was stock all, just some snow tires.

I will say the biggest difference for me was accurate braking. I have lowflyins CD1 rear discs, but they werent perfect until a 15/16ths master and the 4040 prop valve. After that the weight management was perfect to setup a turn.

The rest of the chassis has quite a bit of mods as well. stock z6, mostly 2.5" exhaust except 2.25 to sneak around the t-case. 75A mounts that are slowly wearing and being replaced with 95A. Quaife 2.8 (more like 2.4) quick steering rack. F7 spherical lcas, hardened rubber toe links. Hardrace sphericals in the RTA and camber link. up front is the innovative crossmember replacement acting as a mount for a large 1/8th" aluminum skidplate extending to about the mirrors. s300 and some plx sensors/gauges to log it all.

but just driving it like you hate it on some decent tires seems to be all you really need. Delta Region SCCA | Rally of Eight Reindeer RallyCross Results
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Old 11-02-2015, 05:12 PM   #12 (permalink)
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i dont remember why i stopped coming here, but i gotta say, its nice to see a forum with participation again. all our local forums have all but died. thank you everyone for your replies. i really appreciate it!

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For ice racing I ran my autocross setup, 600F/440R with Koni Yellows and a 24mm rear bar. Too stiff, but worked well enough to win anyways. Rallycross I ran on stock springs and the same koni's.

If I were doing a purpose-built rallyX setup, I'd do a monotube shocks like a bilstein and some sort of dual-rate spring setup, probably around half the total rate of what I was running on the ice.

A local racer/friend who was the PF rallyX national champion a few years ago was at about 300/200 on his EF with bilsteins.
ive been told to stay away from konis as they were too stiff, especially for our venues. our rallyxs are far from conventional. we basically race on an old quad track...no cones, no working (chasing cones). no jumps persay, but at the top of 3rd, the slightest bump can get your wheels off the ground.

i was told the agxs would be ideal and ill say i am very happy with them so far. guy i talked to at shox.com was amazed at how long they have held together, especially with a co driven car. i think if i get the rear spring rates dialed in, the inexpensive agxs might end up working out, but the reason for this thread was to see whats working for others, so if you can tell me how many events youve done on the konis and how thier holding up, same with your buddies thoughts on the blisteins, it would be greatly appreciated! would also be nice to know what chassis's you guys are racing for weight comparisons sake. cars gutted or not, race only, dd, cages, etc.

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Originally Posted by BeerDrinkin View Post
This dude had a JRSC RT4WD wagon in Norway doing ice racing with it. Very good build, worth checking out.

https://www.d-series.org/forums/showc...n-project.html
cool thread! great build and had some good info on spring rates, but i dont think that will work for me as i dont have rt struts anymore.

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heya shenrie!

I was on stock springs and monroe sensatracs. Ksport rally gravels now, springrates are too high but it seems to get the job done so far. finding a wagon length shock with the spring perch in the right spot is the hard part or i would have gone with bilstein HDs for the money.
how many events have you done on the k-sports and are you happy with the purchase? your the first real person ive seen thats using them. would love to hear how long youve been using them and whatever else you can tell me about them.

and are you saying that monroe makes rt specific shock replacements!?!?

the gent ive talked to recommended the hd's, specifically ek rears and eg fronts...its been so long that i forgot why i got talked out of that setup though :/

just for reference, we do 8-10 events a year and our runs are typically 70 seconds give or take.
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Old 11-02-2015, 05:21 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Ah, think I saw your post about that on the FB page. Yeah, Chang's del sol is silly fast. I just bought some Nokians off him Sunday.

Sounds like your wagon has a lot of similar things done to it that I did to my sedan. I had a Z6, quaife LSD and quick rack, rear arms, and some other stuff. Made for a fun little car, I bet that's all a hoot combined with the AWD.
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Old 11-02-2015, 06:02 PM   #14 (permalink)
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it's a riot on the snow. I'm happy with the ksports so far but they may be too stiff in the winter. maybe 4 events and quite a few street miles on them. I planned on an accord wagon front but couldnt decide on a rear shock on the HD there was no DA teg or civic wagon application though.
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Old 11-02-2015, 08:33 PM   #15 (permalink)
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IIRC user "Henry44" does some road rally on the OTHER coast out in Wash. state area.
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Old 11-02-2015, 10:53 PM   #16 (permalink)
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We run a 91 Hatch in stage rally here in the Pacific NW along with the occasionally in rallyx. We are using K-Sport gravel spec coil-overs and have found them to be pretty good for stage rally and a bit soft in rx. We have 3 seasons of rally on the k-sports with no failures. Ask me anything.


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Old 11-03-2015, 06:18 AM   #17 (permalink)
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^^^ lol, small world. i tried to find you at the idaho rally to talk with you about your setup after seeing you scream by my work station. really glad i found you here!!

3 seasons on any suspension for stage rally is impressive. how many events do you normally participate in per season? are you using the spring rates that come with the setup and do you happen to know what they are? are there spring rate options and do you know if they are serviceable? would you recommend them?

description states that these raise the vehicle 2" right from the get go. is that accurate? if so, did you need to correct camber? seems like raising the vehicle 2" would add some unwanted positive camber.

also, if you didnt mind sharing your setup further, what setting range do you find them most efficient? on the lowest setting would they be soft enough for street use?

i didnt see your car in the pits any of the times i made it back to whatever ville everyone was staged at, so i didnt see how gutted or how much cage you have. can you share car weight and if you know any corner balance numbers, id love to hear them.

imho, our rallyxs are more like a stage rally than an rallyx as far as surface and speeds go. however, we also dd this car (its just too much fun not to during snowy conditions), would the ksports be too much for city driving?

sorry for the onslaught of questions, but ive waited a long time to chat with somebody who has some real world experience with the ksports. ive considered them for quite a few years. im willing to spend the jing if its a good product, but it makes me leery when a company specifically says right in the product description that they wont warranty their product if you use it for racing. something about a statement like that just screams we dont back our product.

thanks for chiming in henry44 (and thanks for the referral transzex!), look forward to your response!
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Old 11-03-2015, 07:08 AM   #18 (permalink)
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well....i guess i should worry a little less about the shocks then.....

they feel fine on the road for mine. It's my daily in winter and cruiser when the s2k is down. Mine have been up Mt. Washington, but not at the hillclimb speeds haha.

they did not raise my car on the helpers, i had to crank the springs up with some preload to get it to about 16.25" center to fender front and 15.75" rear. this is just my preference for rallycrossing to get the rear upset more quickly.

I can get you my alignment sheet from a few weeks ago if you want as well. zeroed out all my toe, front caster was about 3.8 without the spacers for the bushings since my front control arms are still rubber bushings. camber was pretty close to 0. Rear is 0 toe and -1.5 on the camber and it could probably use some more.

if you mount the Ksports with the helpers just putting some tension on, your wagon will be lowered. we just have some tall shocks. I think it could just do with some longer springs but havent bothered to do it yet. i was more worried about making sure it would survive a season, but Henry44 makes me less worried about that.
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Old 11-03-2015, 07:34 AM   #19 (permalink)
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they feel fine on the road for mine. It's my daily in winter and cruiser when the s2k is down.
exact same scenario, but replace s2k with tls

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they did not raise my car on the helpers, i had to crank the springs up with some preload to get it to about 16.25" center to fender front and 15.75" rear. this is just my preference for rallycrossing to get the rear upset more quickly.
great info, ty!! its been too long since ive messed with this car. i cant remember my heights. ill put a tape on it later today and report back. im currently using eg agx's with stocker eg springs.

getting the assend out on our car isnt an issue at the speeds we play at. all i need to do is turn the wheel and lift for just a sec, reapply full throttle, and instant oversteer. absolutely love this car.

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I can get you my alignment sheet from a few weeks ago if you want as well. zeroed out all my toe, front caster was about 3.8 without the spacers for the bushings since my front control arms are still rubber bushings. camber was pretty close to 0. Rear is 0 toe and -1.5 on the camber and it could probably use some more.
whatever your willing to share, id love to see. again, ty!!

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Originally Posted by Abide View Post
if you mount the Ksports with the helpers just putting some tension on, your wagon will be lowered. we just have some tall shocks. I think it could just do with some longer springs but havent bothered to do it yet. i was more worried about making sure it would survive a season, but Henry44 makes me less worried about that.
ty, ty, ty!!

do you find that preloading the spring to get the height you like effects the ride quality or how the suspension works in general? if you get longer springs, how much longer would you want them? is your car gutted or do you have a cage??

and x2 with the bold!

you have a build thread i can check out?
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Old 11-03-2015, 07:52 AM   #20 (permalink)
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not much of one https://www.civicwagon.com/showthrea...allyX-RT/page5

im actually non-caged full interior. Its just to burn the occasional stage prepped car when i squeak by with a win at this point. We could definitely use some bracing. the wagon is pretty twisty once you firm the rest up.

I feel like it rides pretty well, maybe slightly stiffer. I will also say you can feel a decent difference in just a few clicks on the shocks, something else i didnt expect. I would like the length to be long enough that i can put the helper springs back on and still have it sit at the right height. This also makes it adjustable by hand, i had to crank them up with the wrench pretty good to get it tall enough.

i do however think the way rt4wd works is a huge advantage most arent aware of. I dont know if you ever got yours loose in a power off slide though high speed sweeper but if you counter steer and add power the front just wants to outrun the rear and it straightens right up. this is HUGE when you start to lose it on the ice. all the advantages of FWD with the traction of awd imo. where symetrical or full lock 4wd would just keep you going the same direction with all 4 spinning.


soooo is this the new official D-Series in the Dirt thread?
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