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Old 03-30-2014, 07:25 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Extended Top Hat for my Coilovers?

So I have some Omni full coilovers, I've had them for years now. The rears are fine with about medium height on the coilovers but give the desired ride height. The fronts on the other hand are completely bottomed out and give the desired ride height.

What happens is when driving on a worn out road (95% of the roads here) it wants to follow the grooves and jerk sometimes. In normal stock suspension cars it doesn't do this for me.

I always assumed it was the stiff 10kg/mm springs in the front, but after looking at my coilovers the other day it appears since they are bottomed out, there is little shock travel available. So maybe if I extend the top hat to allow more shock travel it will ride better and not follow the grooves so much? The rest of my suspension is new, and this is pretty much the last thing on my list.

The trouble is the top hats on my Omni's are aluminum so I can weld and modify like with stock steel ones. Would any top hat work for me or is it specific to each coilover?
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Old 03-30-2014, 08:39 AM   #2 (permalink)
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You can have aluminum welded, but if you have full body coilovers you should still have full shock travel with them on the lowest height setting.


I'm pretty sure camber has to do with getting stuck in groves in the road.
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Old 03-30-2014, 08:55 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by HondaDNA View Post
You can have aluminum welded, but if you have full body coilovers you should still have full shock travel with them on the lowest height setting.


I'm pretty sure camber has to do with getting stuck in groves in the road.
So even with the coilovers adjusted all the way down there is still a lot of shock travel? I guess I can always check too with it compressed all the way and the wheel off. I guess that would answer my question.

Right now I have about -2 degrees of camber on each wheel, and +4 degrees caster in the front with perfect toe.

I've had cars with ebay springs, basically on the ground but still bouncy and it wouldn't act the same as my car. From what I know the shocks/springs help the tires conform to the road and provide a smooth straight path. In my case I thought it was because the springs were so stiff that there would be limited travel to allow this. If this is normal, then I will live with it but I would like to try to improve it if I can.
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Old 03-30-2014, 10:06 AM   #4 (permalink)
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I plan on adding GC extended top hats for more travel, BC pillow ball pivot joint and front camber kit to restore the correct geometry.
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Old 03-30-2014, 10:24 AM   #5 (permalink)
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i don't think you can run a pillowball AND extended tophat
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Old 03-30-2014, 11:13 AM   #6 (permalink)
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If they adjust the height separate of preload then top hats will not do a thing. If they adjust by lowering the spring and losing travel, then yes you will regain travel with top hats. However I doubt bottomed shock is whats causing your problem. Hows your alignment? Toe and caster?
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Old 03-30-2014, 11:54 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZCHONDACRX91 View Post
So even with the coilovers adjusted all the way down there is still a lot of shock travel? I guess I can always check too with it compressed all the way and the wheel off. I guess that would answer my question.

...
Yea the shock body is threaded into the shock mount so full travel should be still aloud (unless you lowered the spring perch instead of the lock ring for the shock mount).


Coilovers - Explained - YouTube

This explains why your car jerks or gets stuck in groves in the road, its called Tramlining

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tirete....jsp?techid=47
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Old 03-31-2014, 07:20 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 19si91 View Post
If they adjust the height separate of preload then top hats will not do a thing. If they adjust by lowering the spring and losing travel, then yes you will regain travel with top hats. However I doubt bottomed shock is whats causing your problem. Hows your alignment? Toe and caster?
Yes at this point the spring is lowered and travel is lost. As stated:

-Toe is dead zero
-Camber is -2 degrees on each wheel
-Caster is +4 on the front

Everything is new except the front lower ball joints, they are 5 years old so maybe I might just get some new ones to rule that out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HondaDNA View Post
Yea the shock body is threaded into the shock mount so full travel should be still aloud (unless you lowered the spring perch instead of the lock ring for the shock mount).


Coilovers - Explained - YouTube

This explains why your car jerks or gets stuck in groves in the road, its called Tramlining

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tirete....jsp?techid=47
That's a good read. Never really thought about having wider tires would affect it also.

Unfortunately I tried preloading the spring then adjusting the lower mount, but even all the way low it would sit too high with the stiff springs. So I had to lower the spring perch the rest of the way (1/2 to 1") to get the ride height I wanted. This is why I think the shock is bottoming out.

The only way to "fix" it is to somehow lower the shock bracket to sit lower so I can keep preload but still lower to the desired height. Or somehow allow the shock to lower further into the shock mount bracket. I really like Omni Coilovers but one of the big issues is the front ride height with their EF/DA coilovers.
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Old 03-31-2014, 08:19 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZCHONDACRX91 View Post
The only way to "fix" it is to somehow lower the shock bracket to sit lower so I can keep preload but still lower to the desired height. Or somehow allow the shock to lower further into the shock mount bracket. I really like Omni Coilovers but one of the big issues is the front ride height with their EF/DA coilovers.

too low? I had a set of the omni sleeves on my old 90 hatch and that thing was lowwwwww
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Old 03-31-2014, 03:21 PM   #10 (permalink)
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too low? I had a set of the omni sleeves on my old 90 hatch and that thing was lowwwwww
The sleeves you can really get it low, full coilovers not so much.

So I took my wheel off and put the jack under the front LCA. I had a reference measurement so I could see when it was at "ride height" to see. There is plenty of shock travel left even with the spring perch moved down and no preload. Probably 1.5"-2" travel left. I guess the last thing is the ball joints, unless you think it might be something else?
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Old 03-31-2014, 03:34 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Check your lower ball joints first. Allowable .020" axial play only. With that much neg. camber, it could be your issue as well as your contact patch is being compromised.

Cheers

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Old 03-31-2014, 04:26 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Im gonna agreebon the camber. When I was running that much camber my car followed all the grooves in the road. Im now at -.8 and it no longer does it.
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Old 04-01-2014, 05:19 AM   #13 (permalink)
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I think j00 need some toe.
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Old 04-01-2014, 07:45 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by hoorah View Post
Check your lower ball joints first. Allowable .020" axial play only. With that much neg. camber, it could be your issue as well as your contact patch is being compromised.

Cheers
Axial play is up and down or side to side right? Hook up my dial indicator to the ball joint and lift the tire to check play, then in and out of the wheel.

I never really thought of -2 degrees of camber as being a lot, I've had cars and ridden in cars where you could really tell it had camber, some with -4 or more negative camber. On mine it doesn't look like much.

The rears need the -2 degrees because at zero or -1 the tire would rub on the wheel well going into corners. The fronts I guess I could get some adjustable UCA and get them closer to zero. I thought it would only wear the tires and never really thought of ride quality.
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Old 04-01-2014, 01:41 PM   #15 (permalink)
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That's not a lot of camber.
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