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Old 03-22-2014, 09:24 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Customer handed me 2k and said build!

Whats up guys, as the title suggests, I had a customer drop off his 96cx HB w/ a b16a2 swap, and blown out shitty ebay coil overs on stock shocks, and asked for something that will handle the curves in the mountains. His budget is near $2000, which he handed me when dropping off the car.

So now the fun..... If you had 2k to blow on suspension what would you do?

Her's the idea;
Koni Yellow sports all four corners <== en route
Hard race bushings
new RTA bushings <== moog
Adjustable front arms
Rear camber adjustment
Traction bar IF budget permits

Now my BIG question is springs. I know everyone likes the GC coilovers, BUT my customer turned 40 today and I think he wants something that rides and performs well, but is not kidney busting. My concern is the GC coil's will be to stiff, so Im wondering if anyone can shed light on this. Or if there is a lowering spring that will do the job im after.

I have read other posts but it seems like a lot of the info is based on popular belief not personal experience.

Let me know what you guys think.

Thanks in advance.
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Old 03-22-2014, 09:30 AM   #2 (permalink)
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get the lowest rate GC sleeves, they shouldn't be too bad
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Old 03-22-2014, 09:30 AM   #3 (permalink)
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I always read that GC were daily friendly...the guys that are serious upgrade the spring rates
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Old 03-22-2014, 04:11 PM   #4 (permalink)
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No adjustable uppers. Not needed on a sensible drop.

H&R Sports. Less than 2" drop, very good rates, but not kidney punching nonsense.
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Old 03-22-2014, 05:43 PM   #5 (permalink)
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for 2g why didnt you try to put a nice set of coilovers under the car?look into Swift springs could prob use the ebay adjusters over the koni's to set the ride height
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Old 03-22-2014, 06:26 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I'm with the BEAV. H&R.
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Old 03-22-2014, 06:47 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I'm old like your customer. I've lived with a number of different modified suspension Civics. I don't think you need to spend 2 grand to get a great suspension setup for daily driving and occasional autocross. With that much money, I would place a high priority on maintenance/restoration type of work first.

Fresh OEM rubber bushings.
Fresh brakes
ball joints
new wheel bearings
Koni Yellow (worth the money, IMO)
mild sport springs (H&R would be great)
a large-ish rear anti-sway bar.
nice tires
alignment

Whatever money is left over, maybe some bling or a steering wheel or sport seats or something... maybe light wheels?

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Old 03-23-2014, 08:27 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Acid_Beaver View Post
No adjustable uppers. Not needed on a sensible drop.

H&R Sports. Less than 2" drop, very good rates, but not kidney punching nonsense.
Strongly considering these.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpciii View Post
I'm old like your customer. I've lived with a number of different modified suspension Civics. I don't think you need to spend 2 grand to get a great suspension setup for daily driving and occasional autocross. With that much money, I would place a high priority on maintenance/restoration type of work first.

Fresh OEM rubber bushings. <== Not poly or hardrace?
Fresh brakes <== Already got Si brakes up front
ball joints <== yup
new wheel bearings <== sounds like they are needed actually
Koni Yellow (worth the money, IMO) <== en route
mild sport springs (H&R would be great) <== looking between these and the GC setup
a large-ish rear anti-sway bar. <== Does the CX hatch back have provisions for a sway? or will I have to buy arms too?
nice tires
alignment <== MANDO!

Whatever money is left over, maybe some bling or a steering wheel or sport seats or something... maybe light wheels?
You know.... I like that idea.

I was looking at the hardrace bushings and they seem like they are just "better" than oem rubber bushings. Makes me think maybe I should get the ES bushing kit. I have ES on my civic. They feel a hell of alot better than the blown out stock crap and are about 1/3 the price of the hard race.
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Old 03-23-2014, 09:09 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Whats the deal with everyone running a beaks bar + an ASR brace? seems to me they do the same thing. I was thinking about grabbing one or the other to help shore up the rear end. Opinions?
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Old 03-23-2014, 09:23 AM   #10 (permalink)
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The cars after 1991 have problems with the sway bar to body mount locations pulling out of the unibody.

So people use those braces for 22mm+ bars.

Or did I read that completely wrong and you are talking about how they run both at the same time? If so, I am going to assume, "twice the colors". Haha
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Old 03-23-2014, 09:38 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FarmerD View Post
The cars after 1991 have problems with the sway bar to body mount locations pulling out of the unibody.

So people use those braces for 22mm+ bars.

Or did I read that completely wrong and you are talking about how they run both at the same time? If so, I am going to assume, "twice the colors". Haha
Lol exactly! For more colors thats what I thought. Im gonna get him a ASR or function 7 brace. Then when he wants to get more rotation out of the rear he'll be ready to drop a sway bar in there.
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Old 03-23-2014, 12:31 PM   #12 (permalink)
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I would stick with the GC and just pick a softer spring setup. I've never liked drop springs since I went to sleeves and springs (even the S2). You could go like a 350/300lb, or maybe a 300/250lb spring setup. I would put some extended top hats, even if they're eBay (you'll have to mod the bushings to accept the sleeve that goes through them). Find the smallest factory front sway bar and get him the bigger rear bar. A friend of mine and fellow DSO member rustbucketrex is getting closer to AARP age and DD's his CRX on some Dropzone sleeves and springs, but they feel around 350F/300R if I had to guess, and uses a stock FSB and 22mm Suspension Techniques RSB. That RSB is affordable as well.

Camber adjusters won't really be needed if it's not slammed out and he keeps the alignment in check. Maybe to equalize side to side camber, but that's it.
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Old 03-23-2014, 01:00 PM   #13 (permalink)
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I'd run 250/350 or 300/400 if you want to keep the ride softer. I've found 100lb difference from front to rear seems to work best with the heavier springs in the rear. you could run progressive spring to also help soften it up but it will also make the handling a little unpredictable. If your thinking rear bar, don't get a big one. I dont think the CX had a front bar. Does it?
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Old 03-23-2014, 01:45 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliLegal View Post
Fresh OEM rubber bushings. <== Not poly or hardrace?
Just personal preference - not wild about living with hard bushings. If I wanted stiff, I would probably choose hardrace because poly tends to wear and deform after a few years. I'm assuming hardrace lasts long like OEM, but don't actually know. I agree with you that poly feels great - delivers lots of feedback to the driver. Sounds like this guy likes the car and intends to keep it for a while, so setting him up with something that lasts a long time might be good. All three are good options, really.

Same with GC vs H&R Sport. Both are a good choice. Progressive rate lowering springs soak up the bumps and ride more smooth on crappy roads, while coilovers are more harsh but more predictable. If going with GC, I wouldn't choose softer than off-the-shelf rates. For a daily driver or a car that takes road trips, I'd choose lowering springs, but that's me (says the guy who is daily driving on ground control, lol).

No matter what, the car is going to perform a LOT better. Maybe ask the customer for some input. What kind of balance does he want? Longevity and comfort too, or max performance?
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Old 03-23-2014, 02:51 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
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I'd run 250/350 or 300/400 if you want to keep the ride softer. I've found 100lb difference from front to rear seems to work best with the heavier springs in the rear. you could run progressive spring to also help soften it up but it will also make the handling a little unpredictable. If your thinking rear bar, don't get a big one. I dont think the CX had a front bar. Does it?
Why does putting the heavier spring in the rear for a softer ride? Just asking because most kits put the heavier spring up front.
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Old 03-23-2014, 04:03 PM   #16 (permalink)
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OEM bushings.

OEM ITR shocks/springs/sways and decent tires and that is all he needs. You don't need aftermarket suspension on a street car. Tell him to spend the rest of the money on HPDE's.
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Old 03-23-2014, 04:15 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Why does putting the heavier spring in the rear for a softer ride? Just asking because most kits put the heavier spring up front.
The heavier spring in the rear is not to keep the ride softer (that's what the low spring rates are for). Having the heavier spring in the rear aids in rotation something all FWD cars need. It will give it more predictable (less understeery) handling. I'm still playing with the idea of swapping the springs (front to back) on my setup just to see how much more oversteer I can get.
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Old 03-23-2014, 05:40 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Why does putting the heavier spring in the rear for a softer ride? Just asking because most kits put the heavier spring up front.
AutoXCivic is correct. Most people reall have no idea how a cars suspension really works. I'm not saying CaliLegal doesn't. If the customer wants a car that handles, take the understeer out of it with higher spring rates in the rear.
Honestly I think 400 is probably a bit high if you dont want a rough ride but It should handle really well in the twisties.
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Old 03-23-2014, 06:49 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
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AutoXCivic is correct. Most people reall have no idea how a cars suspension really works. I'm not saying CaliLegal doesn't. If the customer wants a car that handles, take the understeer out of it with higher spring rates in the rear.
Honestly I think 400 is probably a bit high if you dont want a rough ride but It should handle really well in the twisties.
I agree. This is why I suggested a 22mm rear bar and slightly softer rear springs to help the ride out while still giving rotation. I drove a crx this weekend with 300F/450R springs without a front bar and it felt firm but definitely not bad for daily status. I could feel just a touch of vagueness to the turn in but I'm used to way more spring and a fsb.
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Old 03-23-2014, 08:59 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Personally, I would get something adjustable.

progress coilovers can get you the exact spring rate you want and probably cost less then the koni set up.
And they will assist in setting up rates for whatever size sway bars your running.

Just throwing it out there to look into.

Then, get it on some scales and balance them. Make sure the sways are adjustable, keep them neutral and IMO would be worth the 200 bucks if its for twistys. You have to do an alignment anyways, might as well be after its corner balanced.

I run 24mm ST sway in front and ASR 24mm in rear. The corner balance made quite a difference and eliminated my wheel hop traction issue. Im also a 52/48 front to rear ratio. Probably one of the best performing 200 dollar investments I made (as you are reminded everytime you carve into a corner)

I used Hardrace parts in the past and find they do the job w/o taking a shit in 3 months and have held up fine. Avid currently im using is another story all together..

But again, just throwing it out there to look into.



Edit: theres a special for progress coilovers.

http://hondamarketplace.com/showthread.php?t=2692801
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Last edited by Esotericimage; 03-23-2014 at 09:18 PM.
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