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Integra suspension compatability with EK Civic

35K views 14 replies 9 participants last post by  LTB 
#1 · (Edited)
EK gravel and tarmac suspension options

Hi,
I've been researching and getting some conflicting information. Please do not post any info based on speculation or what you read, I'd appreciate if only those who KNOW what they are saying would post.

I have a 98 lx sedan that I am building which will see gravel and road racing duty along with street use. I do NOT want to lower my car by much, if any, but do want to upgrade the suspension. I would also like to do some brake upgrades if it works out.

What I would like to know is what integra components can I swap onto my EJ6 civic, and what can't I? What parts must be swapped with others and what, if any, must come from an EX or Si?

I haven't been able to confirm if integra shocks or coilovers will physically fit but I'd imagine they would cause geometry issues regardless. Is it necessary (or possible) to swap the complete front assembly (lca, shock fork, steering knuckle and all) to maintain proper geometry with the bigger shocks? This would then allow me to upgrade the brakes right? Or do I need the ex knuckles still?
Does the rear trailing arm need to be swapped for the suspension or just the lca?

As you can hopefully see I've tried to figure this out but there's too much garbage and mis-information. Hopefully someone can light the way for me
This is my first car build.

THANKS!!
 
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#2 ·
your stock shock forks will work for the front with dc/integra shocks. for the rear shocks you just need to add a washer in between the lower control arm to shock to make it fit properly. the integra shocks mounting points are wider in the rear. or just buy shocks meant for a 96-00 civic
 
#3 ·
Aren't the Integra shocks longer than the civic's, or at least they would sag less due to higher spring rates? Wouldn't that have a negative effect on the suspension geometry and the cars handling characteristics? I don't know, I'm just speculating. I'm not looking to scab something together though.

Obviously that would be a good reason to buy proper shocks for my car but don't all good aftermarket shocks lower the ride height? PLUS as I mentioned I am looking to do disc brake upgrades front and back and I thought maybe I could use the integra knuckles instead of the ex if I was using all integra parts, which would also allow me to install integra sway bars. This would be ideal to strip it all from the wreckers in one swoop, instead of multiple cars.
I'm not trying to cut corners, in fact just the opposite. I have a certain goal that I am trying to achieve:
-improve handling characteristics
-maintain ground clearance
-maintain proper geometry (see first point!)
-allow brake upgrades
-be cost effective since gravel will likely chew it up!

Hmm,
Would I be better off just getting Ex knuckles and f+r lca's (for sway bar mounts), and integra calipers, brackets and rear disc hub? Then I still have the issue of civic shocks and ride height. Even if I can get EK shocks that won't lower my car, it seems like a much bigger headache splitting up parts from different vehicles like that.

O man, there's smoke coming from my ears! :willy_nilly:
 
#6 ·
Huh, not sure why I was thinking otherwise but yes you are right. Thanks

When you say 'gravel', what do you mean, exactly - you live down a dirt road, you're rallycrossing, or ???
I plan to do some TSD rallys and winter autoX, which is kind of like rallyx but one at a time. I'm not aware of any rally cross races in this area, unfortunately. Realistically though this is a small percentage of intended usage so while I want it to be capable, it's not the main focus.

As for the road racing, I may not end up racing on an actual track since our local speedway recently closed down but I may find my way to others. I'm struggling on how best to say this... I guess what I don't want is an autoX setup that is super, super tight, or slammed way down to look "cool".
I'm after something stiff enough to control the roll, but soft enough to absorb a sudden bump in a corner without the wheel bouncing and putting you off the road.
I know there are any number of coilovers or shock and spring combos to do this, I guess I was under the impression that the integra shocks and springs were actually longer (not just stiffer) so I could get lowering springs or coilovers for it but still end up near stock civic ride height. If that were the case it really wouldn't be that much more work to swap since I'm already going to be pulling knuckles and spindles for brakes.
 
#5 ·
Most off-the-shelf shocks are intended as a stock replacement, so they're able to be used at stock ride height - for example, the Koni Yellows use spring clips to locate the spring perch - and they've got a setting to put it at stock height.

Most folks will add shorter, stiffer springs, and maybe adjustable spring perches (ala Ground Control sleeves, etc). That's what makes the car low.

gravel and road racing duty along with street use
Trying to do those three things well, with the same spring rate, is likely impossible IMO. When you say 'gravel', what do you mean, exactly - you live down a dirt road, you're rallycrossing, or ???

Doing it with the same shocks is going to be a challenge, even - most adjustables don't have the range of adjustment you'll need to go from gravel (stock-ish softness) to road race (firm). I've had people suggest to me that the KYB AGX have a pretty wide range of adjustment, though.

For my car, which sees both gravel and pavement racing, I opted for two separate suspension setups. If you've got top hats for both, it's _fairly_ easy to swap between them...

pick up the bilstein HD's for the EK. They work really well for gravel using the stock springs, and are intended as a stock replacement - so you'll stay at the stock height.
 
#8 ·
If you're looking to maintain stockish ride height with huge gains in handling, your best bet is gonna be new polyurethane bushings along with whatever else you're planning. I would change at least the rear trailing arm bushings and lower control arm bushing (front and rear). For the rear, it might be worth it to buy whole new lower control arms, as they are so cheap and so many companies make them with pre-inserted polyurethane bushings.

A lot of people overlook bushings because it's such a daunting task compared to slapping on new coil-overs, but you sound like you really wanna do work. I can say from experience that new bushings all around was the best thing I've ever done to tighten up the feel of my Civic.
 
#9 · (Edited)
Thanks for all the advise bopApocolypse, you certainly seam like a knowledgable guy (or gal, just incase!). The two setup idea seems like it might be the best way to go. Are your setups similar in height to each? I'm wondering if it would be neccessary to do an alignment after each time they are switched if the lengths are the same or close to? I'm liking the idea of cheap but better damped shocks with stock springs for winter and possibly the few gravel races in the summer, and good coil overs for summer/pavement.

I've heard poor things about KSport quality however their Rally Spec AR system seems ideal to me. Can be run at OEM ride height and long travel. What are your thoughts on these dampers or any similar suggestions? I'd hate to thrash good COs on gravel so if alignment changes aren't an issue I would swap back and forth for each event. If an alignment is required each time I may just swap them seasonally, it seems like the RA's would be capable (although stiff) with the long stoke if need be.

Wes,
I certainly understand the requirement of good/stiffer bushings, but aren't the rear trailing arm and control arm bushings where you DON'T want poly bushings? Rubber twists, poly doesn't. That causes squeaks (usually) but doesn't it also possibly cause binding? I am planning to look for good rubber bushings for those areas, poly shift bushings and motor mount inserts though.
 
#11 ·
There's few enough folks doing more, ahem, unusual, things with civics that it's worth helping out. :D

I'm a bit ashamed to admit :oops: :whistling: but, even though I've owned my tarmac setup (koni yellows w/ GC coils) for two years, I've never actually installed it... :whistling: :oops:

That said, I know the car is going to be much lower on the tarmac setup than the gravel setup. So, yes, I'll be doing some alignment every time I swap back and forth. "Luckily", I'm running stock control arms etc., so all I really have to adjust is toe - which isn't *too* hard to DIY.

If your two different setups put you at exactly the same ride height, then you shouldn't have to do any alignment in between. If they're close, then you may not need to - but you're going to have to figure out some way to find out just how much your settings change between the two setups to be sure.

Two separate setups is definitely the 'best of both worlds' solution, but also labor-intensive and $$$$.

As far as the KSports - in general, they're probably not as terrible as their reputation might seem. I know of a guy who ran at least one full season of stage rally in his FWD subaru on them without any huge complaints or problems. However, when he switched to his new setup (custom inverted struts using bilstein inserts), he also raved about how much better it was than the ksports. While they may claim to be 'long travel' I'd definitely be skeptical of that when it comes to a Civic application - have a contact there who can tell you just how much travel the shocks have?

Even on an EK, fresh bushings are probably not a bad idea. I'm pretty firmly in the 'rubber for the trailing arm' camp, with the exception for pure autocross cars. I think it's probably best to run rubber in most of the rest of the suspension, but I don't think poly would be as big of an issue for most of it.
 
#10 ·
Well, I haven't had any squeaks to speak of (none louder than road/engine noise). And I don't really know what the heck binding is! I searched for some explanations of it so I could give you a fair answer, but I came up with some very obscure stuff and no notable tales of such binding on D-series. All I know is that nothing odd happens even under hard cornering. Fresh rubber is great too, don't get me wrong. It's just... Energy Suspension parts are cheaper and easier to install for the most part.

PS If you do change the bushings, there are some that aren't worth dicking around with. Like the upper control arms (front and rear) and the rear toe arm. These guys see only a fraction of the impact absorption. Energy Suspension, the company that helps to make doing such bushing replacements worth the money with their low prices, doesn't even offer rear upper control arm and rear toe arm bushings.
 
#15 ·
I think if it were my build, id first up grade front and rear sway bars, "Suspension Techniques" their rear one mounts to a supplied bracelet to mount it to the lower shock mounts, no need to swap LCA's. Then ES bushings, and rubber spring blocks to maintain ride hight and up spring rates. Then race it like u stole it and let the car tell u what it needs from there.
 
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