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Old 11-25-2015, 01:41 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Skunk2 Intake Manifold into EF - brake booster problem?

Hi, im looking for to get an intake manifold Skunk2 for my EF with D16z6, im using RSX Type S Brake booster and master cylinder.

I was wondering if it will hit with brake booster or with chassis firewall?

Thanks!

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Old 11-25-2015, 04:23 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Pics would help. Why are you using an RSX booster and MC anyway?

My first inclination would be to say get rid of the booster... =D
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Old 11-25-2015, 05:55 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Installed it for better braking. Also Im using 2 pistons front calipers with 291mm rotors and EP rear calipers with 260mm .
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Old 11-25-2015, 07:13 AM   #4 (permalink)
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"Better" braking isnt very descriptive.

Once again... why? As far as I can tell an RSX master cylinder is 15/16", which is a size available on earlier civics that can plug and play into a CRX.

Also you have massive sized brakes which gives you more mechanical braking advantage combined with a brake booster out of a much larger car. All of these things sound like a nightmare for an overly sensitive pedal and huge potential for terrible brake modulation resolution.

If you are worried about clearence, dump the booster, put in a stock 13/16" MC and enjoy the reduced pedal travel and decreased stopping distances.

You also still have not sent a picture.
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Old 11-25-2015, 03:12 PM   #5 (permalink)
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this car is not used only for drag, it's for track use. good brake setup is essential.

I will shoot some pictures soon. Thank you for your repy anyway.
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Old 11-25-2015, 04:00 PM   #6 (permalink)
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so, why rsx over integra 1'' if youre worried about "better" braking? there are threads galore with "better" braking options....
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Old 11-25-2015, 04:21 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EF_hatch View Post
this car is not used only for drag, it's for track use. good brake setup is essential.

I will shoot some pictures soon. Thank you for your repy anyway.
I am not sure why you mistakenly believe that I am trying to degrade your brake performance, nor am I sure why you believe you need an RSX MC to make your brakes "better".

My point was "better" means different things to different people. To some people better could mean softer brakes to push the pedal easier, better could mean a harder pedal to provide finer resolution and allows you to stop faster, better could mean a larger MC to decrease pedal distance travel, better could mean a smaller MC to allow brake booster removal and drastically lower pedal distance travel while allowing a reasonable pedal pressure.

Those options only address the master cylinder and vacuum booster, I havent even gotten into anything past that. Do you see how you saying "better" isnt very descriptive or helpful?

Be more specific what "better" means to you in regards to brakes and specifically what you hoped to accomplish by putting in an RSX MC and booster.

And still no pictures.
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Old 11-25-2015, 04:38 PM   #8 (permalink)
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the rsx booster appears to be smaller diameter, but sticks out more.

I assume "better braking" means more linear pedal feedback for racing, which means he will want a booster. easier to start braking, and responds much better to light touch. However, it probably feels "numb" after 50% pedal, and cant really tell if you are pushing enough.

Id recommend going to a proven integra Type R master/booster setup and enjoy the extra braking performance. the ITR setup is proven to be very durable and capable of supporting all the aftermarket big brake upgrades with minimal, if any, trouble.
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Old 11-25-2015, 05:50 PM   #9 (permalink)
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RSX sized brakes reduce braking effort, increased caliper surface area reduces braking effort, RSX vacuum booster reduces braking effort.

If your brakes are too easy to push you cant modulate them well, your setup sounds like it is pushing that boundry damn hard to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattliston View Post
I assume "better braking" means more linear pedal feedback for racing, which means he will want a booster.
Ok so a booster is definately non linear, so I dont know what you are refering to there. Manual brakes are linear: linear increase in pedal pressure = linear increase in line pressure. Vacuum boosters are over the place, they add compressible slop so part of your pedal effort and travel in the beginning go towards compressing vacuum booster components, as you compress them further more of your pedal effort goes into braking. The vacuum booster itself is non linear as far as assistance goes, especially if your manifold vacuum is varying, as can happen when engine braking, braking under power, or simply using cams with high overlap, all of which can easily happen during racing....
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Old 11-26-2015, 05:35 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattliston View Post
the rsx booster appears to be smaller diameter, but sticks out more.

I assume "better braking" means more linear pedal feedback for racing, which means he will want a booster. easier to start braking, and responds much better to light touch. However, it probably feels "numb" after 50% pedal, and cant really tell if you are pushing enough.

Id recommend going to a proven integra Type R master/booster setup and enjoy the extra braking performance. the ITR setup is proven to be very durable and capable of supporting all the aftermarket big brake upgrades with minimal, if any, trouble.
Correct, ive installed in other cars 1" , cars brakes really good but in EF i love DC5 MC with that big Brake booster.

Im using front Legend 2 piston calipers and EP3 rear calipers. what i said in the first time, i did this for to improve brake system and i woulnt want remove it just for Intake manifold.

My question is just if i will fits but i assume it doesnt..

Im trying to find pictures when i replaced master cylinder and brake booster but it's too old..if i find it ill post it.
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Old 11-26-2015, 05:52 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EF_hatch View Post
Im using front Legend 2 piston calipers and EP3 rear calipers. what i said in the first time, i did this for to improve brake system and i woulnt want remove it just for Intake manifold.
Quote:
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I am not sure why you mistakenly believe that I am trying to degrade your brake performance, nor am I sure why you believe you need an RSX MC to make your brakes "better".

"better" means different things to different people.... Be more specific what "better" means to you in regards to brakes and specifically what you hoped to accomplish by putting in an RSX MC and booster.

And still no pictures.
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Old 11-27-2015, 03:58 AM   #12 (permalink)
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My english isnt my first language so i'd try to tell you what i fell with this setup.

with RSX MC and Booster , i got more "positions" for brake it without block completely brakes.

ive used the conversion on EF that use 280 corrado with EG6 calipers, used good rotors and Ferodo DS2500 and brakes was enought to me, good power on this lighter car, when i replaced with 2 front piston calipers and 291mm i even got more power and with the MC and booster from RSX was a perfect setup just only bad thing i could get is that these rotors are 22mm thickness but ive found a car that use 300X24 thickness 4X100 i will have to test it if it first good, the rear conversino i did was only for a "look goods" only.

I have installed many 1" in civics with Civic Mb6 calipers or ITR calipers that are the same using 282 rotors and that's the best-cheap-reliable setup that everything for street and using good rotors and brake pads shuold be good for track use too.

well, everything above doesnt matter , just i asked for intake manifold lool
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Old 11-27-2015, 05:10 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EF_hatch View Post
My english isnt my first language so i'd try to tell you what i fell with this setup.

with RSX MC and Booster , i got more "positions" for brake it without block completely brakes.
Ok, language is clearly a barrier here, because I do not know what you are trying to say. Can you try again? Are you saying you want to have more pedal travel before your brakes lock?

Quote:
Originally Posted by EF_hatch View Post
well, everything above doesnt matter , just i asked for intake manifold lool
And with all these huge brakes and huge master cylinder combos you have installed, have you ever tried big brakes with a small 13/16 master cylinder and no brake booster?

I have 262mm front brakes and stock rear disks on my CRX, I use the stock 13/16 mastercylinder without a booster, it works great and gives me a lot more room. Your larger brakes should work even easier than mine with a stock 13/16" master cylinder and no booster.

https://www.d-series.org/forums/gener...-cylinder.html

Stock booster and master cylinder


My stock master cylinder without a brake booster.
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Old 11-28-2015, 10:00 AM   #14 (permalink)
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late 80s accord XSi MC (15/16) swaps right in.
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Old 11-28-2015, 11:12 AM   #15 (permalink)
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I just dont get the point of running a big master cylinder and a brake booster on these cars. I know its a common setup, but it is just asinine in my opinion.

CRX comes from the factory with a relatively small master cylinder and a brake booster to make the brakes easy to push. The downside is the vacuum booster adds a ton of pedal slop and also adds inconstincies if it isnt being supplied a steady vacuum source.

The performance goal is to reduce pedal travel, especially pedal travel that isnt actually working the brakes, and the acceptable trade off is firmer than stock pedal pressure. There are 2 ways to do this:

A: Track down and buy a larger master cylinder, keep the booster and all the inconstincies and huge amount of slop that goes with it.

B: Remove the booster and associated slop. Have less pedal travel and much more linear, consistant result than option A for the cost of a couple bolts.

Why do so many people choose option A?
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Old 11-28-2015, 04:02 PM   #16 (permalink)
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break down a legit Integra Type R and compare it to a Integra GSR of same vintage.

THAT is why many people go for bigger. Because honda did it and was VERY successful AND reliable while racing.

WHat you DONT find in honda's racing is booster removals and reduced masters. Because that is DUMB and purely a braking FEEL.


My DX stock brake system will stop FAR faster than an identical DX with a smaller master and no booster. I will put money on it. a smaller means you are moving a smaller amount of fluid FASTER. BUT that amount does NOT translate into a FULL piston compression on the caliper.


bigger calipers, bigger master. Physics. Reasons. BECAUSE RACECAR!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 11-28-2015, 04:40 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
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WHat you DONT find in honda's racing is booster removals and reduced masters. Because that is DUMB and purely a braking FEEL.
I dont know what all honda racers do, or do not do, I havent polled all of them. However, I can tell you that there have been a lot of professional race cars over the years that have very sucessfully used manual brakes, because they can be controlled more accurately and precisely than power brakes, so they can stop faster.

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break down a legit Integra Type R and compare it to a Integra GSR of same vintage.

THAT is why many people go for bigger. Because honda did it and was VERY successful AND reliable while racing.
We are refering to master cylinders and you are comparing GSR VS ITRs.... which came with the same size master cylinders each year... So what is your point here?

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My DX stock brake system will stop FAR faster than an identical DX with a smaller master and no booster. I will put money on it. a smaller means you are moving a smaller amount of fluid FASTER. BUT that amount does NOT translate into a FULL piston compression on the caliper.

bigger calipers, bigger master. Physics. Reasons. BECAUSE RACECAR!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ok Mattliston.... You should really try to not comment on stuff you dont know about. You are just wrong on everything here.

If your master cylinder can move enough fluid to completely compress all your brake calipers, it does not matter to your brakes what size your master cylinder is. Your brakes DO NOT SEE your master cylinder. Your brakes ONLY see line pressure and a TINY amount of fluid volume, it does not matter if that comes from a 1/2" master cylinder with no booster, or a 10" master cylinder with huge assist, if they provide the same line pressure, your brakes will act exactly the same.

Keep in mind that brakes that are in decent condition and adjusted properly require VERY little fluid volume to move calipers, after they make contact it is all about line pressure. If you remember from basic science classes, fluid is basically non compressible.

You think you need a huge master cylinder, because you think your master cylinder moves a lot of fluid because your brake pedal moves a long distance. I understand why you think these things, but they are wrong.

Your pedal moves a long ways because your vacuum booster adds slop, not because your master cylinder has to move a large volume of fluid.

My stock 13/16" master cylinder with integra 10.3" fronts and stock rear disks barely moves from completely up to full lock. I get MAYBE 1" of pedal travel at the outside, and most of that is from firewall flex and pedal arm flex. I could easily completely engage 5-10 of my complete brake systems with my same master cylinder.

So you saying your brakes work better because my stock master cylinder cant move enough fluid volume to fully engage the calipers is just..... Uninformed. At best.
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Old 11-29-2015, 09:49 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Lol, arguing just to argue again, eh? Classic Joel.
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Old 11-29-2015, 12:46 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Ehhh some might say that. Seems like in the OPs case stock MC boosterless would be a good option, huge brakes and possible clearence issues. Mattliston ignorant fearmongering seemed a bit out of place to me though.

Besides I just hate it when people come in telling me I know nothing about something I have been doing for the last 15 years, especially since it is clearly something they have never done.
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Old 11-29-2015, 01:15 PM   #20 (permalink)
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I'm planning on down sizing my MC, 15/16" with tiny HF booster and I cannot get enough braking force. Stock front, rear disk upgrade.

Just did some reading of newer Circle Track Magazine....yep we've been doing some things wrong
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