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Old 11-10-2015, 12:27 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Question D16Z6 Turbo Please help...

Before anyone rips me a new one for this being my first post and use the search bar blah blah blah your a noob and all that shit... 1 I have searched my ass off for months and months on many sites! (just incognito as guest) Researching and contemplating and deciding what i want to do. I come from rebuilding an e36 from the ground up at 15 years old and owning an e39 m5 and an e36 m3 before that. I know my way around cars I'm a big DIY'er but I'm not the most knowledgeable forced induction junky... yet!

Anyways I have a series of questions that I need help answering. I will post my work in progress setup first and then questions second. Thank you for reading.. here goes nothing...

1995 EG Si (fully loaded A/C + P/S)
150k original miles
compression test : 200,197,197,200
no burning oil or leaks, Clean title (Service records from dealer 145k and before)

Greddy 19t Turbo kit (flows better than 15g)
Greddy FMIC (black) for 15g kit
Custom Greddy CARB stickers
Bored Greddy elbow
2.5" downpipe
high flow cat
2.5" exhaust with glass pack and turbo straight through muffler
8psi on 19t turbo
Greddy 310cc injectors
Greddy turbo timer
Wideband AEM
HKS SSQV BOV (recirc or atmosphere havent decided yet)
will be tuned on chrome (recommend SD tuner?)
NGK Spark plug wires
NGK BRK7E spark plugs (unless u recommend iridium?)
Clutch Masters fx200 clutch
OBX LSD
180-200whp goal

I hope you guys approve of my setup its going to be DD and must be carb legal so i want reliable but able to beat quick cars (not fast cars) I'm not expecting 300+ horsepower and reliability without a BUILT ass motor.

A few Questions I have... Is there anything you would recommend on me changing my setup?

Will the 310cc Injectors Supplied by Greddy work just fine? how close will i be to maxing them out? Id rather not go to 450cc just because i already purchased the 310cc with the kit.

Are there better versions of the NGK BRK7E spark plugs? like an iridium version or something?

how bad will the turbo hurt my MPG on Highway (cruising 75mph) at 3400rpm?

Im assumming since the turbo will be spooling at that rpm it will be pushing more air into the motor which in turn is going to dump fuel into the motor being more wasteful...

If i get an electronic boost controller and turn down the boost to say 1 or 2 psi would it in anyway improve fuel economy on my already 33-36mpg highway? or am i better off just turning boost down to 0 psi when cruising on the highway?

Recommend a San Diego Proffesional Dyno tuner for this car? i dont want my engine to blow because of a shitty tune...

Is my HP goal realistic for my setup or will i be killing my reliability with a 200whp goal.

Lastly somewhat off topic of turbo... but I want to change my final drive ratio to 3.722 from a 96-00 dx,lx,hx,cx from my 4.250 so my highway rpm will be 3040rpm not 3470rpm at 75mph. Can i take the ring and pinion off of the EK trans and put it in my eg trans? (this will also bring my 2nd gear to 70mph woot lol)

thanks ahead od time for your response id rather turbo it once and do it the right way and spend the money the first time and not blow up my motor than going the cheap way and having issues.

PS

I'm sure i am going to have more questions ill just add them as I remember them... (shouldve wrote them down on paper )
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Old 11-10-2015, 12:31 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Forgot to add that i will be running ARP headstuds! my bad
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Old 11-10-2015, 12:39 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Just wanna add that you need to do some more research.

A turbo will only make boost when under load.
So cruising at around 10% throttle wouldnt make boost unless you have a small as turbo like a K04 or something.

and there is a member on here push just pass 300 with a 18g
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Old 11-10-2015, 12:46 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CleanSi View Post
Will the 310cc Injectors Supplied by Greddy work just fine?
Yes. For your power goal 310cc will be just fine. As far as maxing them out, that's all going to be in your tune, what your actual fuel requirements will be at a given boost level, and what your fuel pressure is going to be.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CleanSi View Post
Are there better versions of the NGK BRK7E spark plugs? like an iridium version or something?
IMO BKR7E plugs gapped to .028" are adequate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CleanSi View Post
how bad will the turbo hurt my MPG on Highway (cruising 75mph) at 3400rpm?
Boost pressure is a function of engine speed and load. You won't be creating boost pressure cruising on the highway so long as you can keep your foot behaved.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CleanSi View Post
If i get an electronic boost controller and turn down the boost to say 1 or 2 psi would it in anyway improve fuel economy on my already 33-36mpg highway? or am i better off just turning boost down to 0 psi when cruising on the highway?
Your foot is your fuel economy regulator. Just cruising will not kill your gas mileage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CleanSi View Post
Is my HP goal realistic for my setup or will i be killing my reliability with a 200whp goal.
200WHP is a healthy number. Go for it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CleanSi View Post
Lastly somewhat off topic of turbo... but I want to change my final drive ratio to 3.722 from a 96-00 dx,lx,hx,cx from my 4.250 so my highway rpm will be 3040rpm not 3470rpm at 75mph. Can i take the ring and pinion off of the EK trans and put it in my eg trans? (this will also bring my 2nd gear to 70mph woot lol)
Paging a transmission expert. I can't help you here. Good luck with your build.

Last edited by keel_hauled; 11-10-2015 at 12:48 PM.
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Old 11-10-2015, 12:46 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by xile6 View Post
Just wanna add that you need to do some more research.

A turbo will only make boost when under load.
So cruising at around 10% throttle wouldnt make boost unless you have a small as turbo like a K04 or something.

and there is a member on here push just pass 300 with a 18g
I tried searching up how a turbo affects mpg on the highway (even on google) but i guess i just worded it improperly because all i could find was articles about the new cars all switching to smaller motors and turbo instead of v6.

Thanks for clearing that up... Just to make sure what your telling me is there is no reason for me to get a EBC to lower my boost on the highway because the turbo wont be making boost while cruising.
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Old 11-10-2015, 12:49 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Yes. For your power goal 310cc will be just fine. As far as maxing them out, that's all going to be in your tune, what your actual fuel requirements will be at a given boost level, and what your fuel pressure is going to be.


IMO BRK7E plugs gapped to .028" are adequate.


Boost pressure is a function of engine speed and load. You won't be creating boost pressure cruising on the highway so long as you can keep your foot behaved.


Your foot is your fuel economy regulator. Just cruising will not kill your gas mileage.


200WHP is a healthy number. Go for it.



Paging a transmission expert. I can't help you here. Good luck with your build.
Thank you for the great information ill be taking pictures and taking my time i hope to make a build thread on here by the time im done with it.

YES PAGE THAT TRANNY EXPERT! or i can move that question to a different part of this forum... not the forced induction threads haha.
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Old 11-10-2015, 12:55 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Yes. For your power goal 310cc will be just fine. As far as maxing them out, that's all going to be in your tune, what your actual fuel requirements will be at a given boost level, and what your fuel pressure is going to be.
Will I need a new fuel pump or filter or anything? i see the walbro 255 or however you spell it is popular... is that needed for this boost level and power goals?
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Old 11-10-2015, 12:56 PM   #8 (permalink)
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YES PAGE THAT TRANNY EXPERT! or i can move that question to a different part of this forum... not the forced induction threads haha.
Just do some thorough digging on the internet for that one. I've found some stellar transmission information that isn't in forums on various sites. Be thorough in your searches before posting a question like that.
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Old 11-10-2015, 12:58 PM   #9 (permalink)
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the final drive can be swapped out between the 2, but wouldn't it just be easier to find a y7 transmission? or have you checked out the gearing calculator and see the very minor differences?

I had a trans built bone and its a y7 rebuilt with lsd and a 3.7 final. haven't installed it yet due to other things on the turbo build, but eventually


also, all the questions you have, have been answered. most of us arnt as nice as keel and we have no issues with posting ponie memes and telling you to search.

don't believe me? look me up
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Old 11-10-2015, 01:00 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keel_hauled View Post
Just do some thorough digging on the internet for that one. I've found some stellar transmission information that isn't in forums on various sites. Be thorough in your searches before posting a question like that.
10-4 ghost rider
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Old 11-10-2015, 01:03 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by slo_eg8 View Post
the final drive can be swapped out between the 2, but wouldn't it just be easier to find a y7 transmission? or have you checked out the gearing calculator and see the very minor differences?

I had a trans built bone and its a y7 rebuilt with lsd and a 3.7 final. haven't installed it yet due to other things on the turbo build, but eventually


also, all the questions you have, have been answered. most of us arnt as nice as keel and we have no issues with posting ponie memes and telling you to search.

don't believe me? look me up
The Whole trans drops the rpm to 2800 rpm (i think its prob a little too low. my 0-60 times will suffer more than if i just do the ring and pinion. ... and I already have the LSD for my trans (40mm bearing) i dont believe it works in that trans.
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Old 11-10-2015, 01:59 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CleanSi View Post
I tried searching up how a turbo affects mpg on the highway (even on google) but i guess i just worded it improperly because all i could find was articles about the new cars all switching to smaller motors and turbo instead of v6.

Thanks for clearing that up... Just to make sure what your telling me is there is no reason for me to get a EBC to lower my boost on the highway because the turbo wont be making boost while cruising.
Saying you search is starting to show that you didnt search. Or didnt do it correctly.

First you can NOT lower boost lower then the spring rate.
Some internal gated turbos can use a solenoid to manual open the WG (wastegate) flap before boost is built.
But thats just plain stupid.

Moving on. Boost is depended upon load as i said.
All these factory turbo cars and drag cars dont cruise in boost.
They will have different lags tho. Some setups 0 lag.
Read up on how turbos work and your understand.

Then your answer your own question on why you dont need to lower boost for cruising.

Your injectors are plain small IMO.
If you double your HP why not double your injectors.
240cc * 2 = 480cc. Stock hp is around 100whp. Bolt ons bring you back to 120ish whp.

I wouldnt go lower then 400cc on a turbo D16 setup.
Yes it can be done in lower cc injectors, but why. Its nice to have room to grow and not have to run high duty cycle.

And just because i believe you dont know.
You do know your need ton7se 91 octane or higher gas right?
And psi has nothing to to do with the hp that is made.
There is a ton of other factors that determenes.
"What will she run" or WHP output. (Hourse power at the wheels. Which is est 5 to 20% lower then crank hp. Again depends on some variables)


But as said do some more research.
Read how it works, read over other questions others have ask even if you dont have that question. Your end up learning something that might asnwer another question you have.


Quote:
Originally Posted by CleanSi View Post
Will I need a new fuel pump or filter or anything? i see the walbro 255 or however you spell it is popular... is that needed for this boost level and power goals?
Again search.
Not needed. A 190 will work.
But 255 is more coman because it flows more for just a bit more cash
.
Also note your stock pump is old and filter could be clog and if your replacing everything else why not.



And not trying to come out as an ASS,
Vut really you said you search and thats pretty much a bold face lie.

So take it or leave it.
Enjoy ya stay.
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Last edited by xile6; 11-10-2015 at 02:03 PM.
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Old 11-10-2015, 03:44 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by xile6 View Post
Saying you search is starting to show that you didnt search. Or didnt do it correctly.

First you can NOT lower boost lower then the spring rate.
Some internal gated turbos can use a solenoid to manual open the WG (wastegate) flap before boost is built.
But thats just plain stupid.

Moving on. Boost is depended upon load as i said.
All these factory turbo cars and drag cars dont cruise in boost.
They will have different lags tho. Some setups 0 lag.
Read up on how turbos work and your understand.

Then your answer your own question on why you dont need to lower boost for cruising.

Your injectors are plain small IMO.
If you double your HP why not double your injectors.
240cc * 2 = 480cc. Stock hp is around 100whp. Bolt ons bring you back to 120ish whp.

I wouldnt go lower then 400cc on a turbo D16 setup.
Yes it can be done in lower cc injectors, but why. Its nice to have room to grow and not have to run high duty cycle.

And just because i believe you dont know.
You do know your need ton7se 91 octane or higher gas right?
And psi has nothing to to do with the hp that is made.
There is a ton of other factors that determenes.
"What will she run" or WHP output. (Hourse power at the wheels. Which is est 5 to 20% lower then crank hp. Again depends on some variables)


But as said do some more research.
Read how it works, read over other questions others have ask even if you dont have that question. Your end up learning something that might asnwer another question you have.




Again search.
Not needed. A 190 will work.
But 255 is more coman because it flows more for just a bit more cash
.
Also note your stock pump is old and filter could be clog and if your replacing everything else why not.



And not trying to come out as an ASS,
Vut really you said you search and thats pretty much a bold face lie.

So take it or leave it.
Enjoy ya stay.

Its okay man the ASSHOLE is always in charge right?

you're allowed to be an ass cuz I'm the noob here so ill take your jabs I don't care haha

I don't mind being told I didn't do something when I did so it's whatever haha.

Since I didn't find the answers I was looking for while searching I decided I would ask.

Just because I didn't find my answers doesn't mean I didn't search... yes granted I could've searched more and more and more there is always more research to be had but at some point you start driving yourself mad and resort to just asking a question ( and then getting reamed because your question was answered in some long forgotten thread from 2001 )

Anyways I never asked how much horsepower this setup would make at what amount of PSI. I understand that there are a lot of factors one of them being it depends on your turbos CFM at a given rpm and psi. Tuning, intake tract, exhaust , and so on.

I know I have to run 91 octane minimum to avoid detonation problems. I'm use to 91 octane cough cough BMW (burn my wallet)

IDK why I didn't come to that conclusion on my own kind of one of those face palm moments..

in order for the turbo to make boost you have to have exhaust gasses spooling up the turbo. so when your not making a lot of exhaust gasses ( under load) then the turbo is not working hard and making a lot of boost. that was a very simple thing to comprehend idk what's wrong with me ill kick myself in the nuts for that one.

I ask more and more questions because I don't feel like I took in a straight forward answer, or if the answer is really based uniquely on your setup, or if the answer I found was from 2004 I would like to clarify that there hasn't been some discovery that something else would be better.

I come to you with a bowl half full of rice and I don't mind taking some slaps in the face as long as the main objective is achieved ( leave with a full bowl of rice).

Thank you for answering my question about the fuel pump I understand the concept of if your replacing it anyways might as well future proof it.

Since I have you here... I might as well ask you another question ( feel free to kick me and say I didn't search) I understand there are different injectors dsm 450cc blue or black and also it seems rx7 460cc injectors are pretty popular also. If I end up buying the 255lph pump and either one of these sets of injectors I heard something about needing a separate fuel management system, but idk if that would apply to me... Does a chipped p28 on chrome allow me to manage the fuel supply adequately enough for that setup or do I need a separate system. I thought piggy backs were lesser than a Standalone like Hondata, Uberdata, Neptune, Chrome and so on.

oh and as injectors go do YOU have any preference of one over the other when it comes to using dsm or any other brand.
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Old 11-10-2015, 04:00 PM   #14 (permalink)
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yes. search. also hiprofile. search.
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Old 11-10-2015, 04:15 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CleanSi View Post
If I end up buying the 255lph pump and either one of these sets of injectors I heard something about needing a separate fuel management system
Well, yes, but the main reason you need to revise your fuel management system is because you are adding addition pressure into the engine and creating far more horsepower than was intended from the factory. I'm going to stop there and say this. Not to be an ass but I'm being completely serious. Go buy this book:

Amazon Amazon

I'm not sure of the legalities of me posting a direct link for a product here, but you're asking common sense questions. Common sense in the realm of performance modifications. Read a bit of literature and make your own conclusions. Again, not trying to be an ass but there is a world of information out there that you need to experience and it's not going to be condensed down into a forum thread. Good luck.
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Old 11-10-2015, 04:33 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Someone correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't lower the cruise RPMs actually hurt mileage a bit on these engines.

For some reason I think it was Bone saying that these engine actually get better mileage by having cruise RPMs above 3k.

With that said, this is not a big displacement engine that needs the revs kept low. It's a small engine that needs good air velocity to keep VE up..
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Last edited by 2drz6; 11-11-2015 at 03:09 AM.
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Old 11-10-2015, 04:47 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Well, yes, but the main reason you need to revise your fuel management system is because you are adding addition pressure into the engine and creating far more horsepower than was intended from the factory. I'm going to stop there and say this. Not to be an ass but I'm being completely serious. Go buy this book:



I'm not sure of the legalities of me posting a direct link for a product here, but you're asking common sense questions. Common sense in the realm of performance modifications. Read a bit of literature and make your own conclusions. Again, not trying to be an ass but there is a world of information out there that you need to experience and it's not going to be condensed down into a forum thread. Good luck.
Absolutely i understand i will go purchase this book and no not at all nobody is being an ass haha
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Old 11-10-2015, 04:51 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Someone correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't lower the cruise RPMs actually hurt mileage a bit.

For some reason I think it was Bone saying that these engine actually get better mileage by having cruise RPMs above 3k.

With that said, this is not a big displacement engine that needs the revs kept low. It's a small engine that needs good air velocity to keep VE up..
intersting concept... I can only think that you get better mpg at 65mph over 75-80mph because the engine is spinning faster and pushing more air to keep velocity and so forth. Im not trying to change it to 2400 like a bigger displacement engine. rather attempting to bring the rpms down to where they would be at 60-65mph. but shit if thats the case id rather not switch final drive ratios.
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Old 11-10-2015, 05:07 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Someone correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't lower the cruise RPMs actually hurt mileage a bit.
Of course that's entirely dependent on the displacement of the engine and the amount of effort require to move the car at XXXX RPM in Y gear. With that in mind, Honda engineered each engine for each transmission for a given purpose. Sure there is a fair amount of Frankenstein swapping you can do to achieve better fuel economy but like you said, there will be a point of diminishing returns.

OP, if you want good fuel economy but don't want to dive down the rabbit hole of gearing, just get your tune right. You're going to enjoy the turbo regardless of what gearing you have and a couple hundred RPM from a four cylinder engine really isn't going to make a huge impact on your wallet at the gas station.
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Old 11-10-2015, 05:14 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Of course that's entirely dependent on the displacement of the engine and the amount of effort require to move the car at XXXX RPM in Y gear. With that in mind, Honda engineered each engine for each transmission for a given purpose. Sure there is a fair amount of Frankenstein swapping you can do to achieve better fuel economy but like you said, there will be a point of diminishing returns.

OP, if you want good fuel economy but don't want to dive down the rabbit hole of gearing, just get your tune right. You're going to enjoy the turbo regardless of what gearing you have and a couple hundred RPM from a four cylinder engine really isn't going to make a huge impact on your wallet at the gas station.
Thanks yeah that sounds logical. Im coming from driving my m5 everyday 25,000 miles a year so going to the honda saves me 3000$ a year just in gasoline forget maint cost. so im taking the extra money and making it a little more fun to drive . Boosting is a totally different world from just large displacement V8's lol with gods amount of torque down low.

Thanks for all your help to everyone who chimmed in. I think this thread can be officially closed now. I have gotten alot of my questions answered.
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