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Old 11-04-2015, 05:54 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Hey guys so pretty much long story short is I'm looking to build a new motor for my hatch. I'm currently running a b7/y8 mini me but she's blowing smoke and something needs to be done. I have a y8 block sitting in the basement but to use that I'd need to send it out for machine work which is out of the budget.

My main goals are pretty much around 140 whp and reliability. This hatch will see some auto-x next summer.

Now I can think of two options:

1. I could re build my b7 short block, mill the y8 head and get a 272-2 regrind for a nice little powerful mini me. 93 isn't really available in my area so I was thinking no higher than 11.5:1 compression

2. Or I could go to the local junkyard and pull a y7 block for $130 and do all the same mods to the head but if the block needs a rebuild I gotta spend more for the same power.

Is it far-fetched to think a mini me could put out 140whp reliably? Someday I'd like to imagine that the car will be turbo-ed but that will likely be with the y8 block and vitaras so I don't think the b7s thinner rods will be an issue.
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Old 11-04-2015, 06:08 PM   #2 (permalink)
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why is having machine work out of the question, when getting a regrind would cost roughly the same thing? why not rebuild the block you have? why not do some reading around here on what people have done for similar power n/a?
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Old 11-04-2015, 06:33 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slo_eg8 View Post
why is having machine work out of the question, when getting a regrind would cost roughly the same thing? why not rebuild the block you have? why not do some reading around here on what people have done for similar power n/a?
The main reason I don't want to have machine work on the y8 block is the crank needs to be polished and it seems that's a frowned upon thing from research on here. Trying to find a good crank would probably cost me about 200 seeing as not too many people build hondas in the area. Second is I don't have the pistons / rods for the block so I'd have to pick up a set hence why I posted about the y7 block idea.

And I have nothing against rebuilding the b7 block I was just curious if there was any obvious reason why I shouldn't. I know the b7 block doesn't seem to be a very popular one (which I'm guessing is related to the rods). With the money I'd be saving by not having machine work done I'd like to invest in some things like arp rod bolts, and an adjustable cam gear.

I also promise I have been reading around and won't stop until the motor is finally done.
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Old 11-04-2015, 06:50 PM   #4 (permalink)
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search d15beast7.

also, a y7 is the same as a y8, so if you dropped coin for a y7 block, may as well take it to get checked out to make sure all is well since the y series blocks are known for oiling issues. but again, reading up would tell you the pros and cons of both b7 and y7/8
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Old 11-04-2015, 08:41 PM   #5 (permalink)
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what engine is in your car now?
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Old 11-05-2015, 03:31 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Thanks slo_eg8, and the car currently has the b7/y8 mini me in it. I may pull it Saturday although the motors just gonna sit for awhile.
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Old 11-05-2015, 06:51 AM   #7 (permalink)
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My recommendation would be to get a full d16z6 ling block. One thats in good shape and build from there.

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Old 11-05-2015, 08:51 AM   #8 (permalink)
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I'd like a z6 but their not really available around here. There's only one for sale in the relative area at the moment and it's $450, which is a bit more than I'm willing to pay for a high mileage motor.

The current build I'm thinking of doing is:
rebuild the b7 block (all new seals / rings / bearings)
arp rod bolts
mill the y8 head .020 (putting the block at 11.25:1 according to zealautoworks)
272-2 regrind
upgraded springs / retainers
adjustable cam gear
arp head studs
y8 3 layer head gasket

I can get the head milled for free so really the most expensive part will be the cam / springs upgrade. I figure any money spent on the head isn't really lost as someday when I'm out of college (say 2 or 3 years) I could rebuild the y8 block and pair it with this head.

Last edited by Fast_Eddie; 11-05-2015 at 08:52 AM. Reason: Too many zeros
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Old 11-05-2015, 09:17 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Finding a not-blown-up Z6 or A6 longblock has gotten really difficult in my area. If you do find one, its 400-500 bucks.
For a few more bucks I could go get a complete low miles JDM D15B or ZC swap from a local JDM warehouse.

Im not sure what to tell you OP. Your B7 probably needs to be bored over, so if you cant afford machine shop work, that option is out.
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Old 11-05-2015, 11:37 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast_Eddie View Post
I'd like a z6 but their not really available around here. There's only one for sale in the relative area at the moment and it's $450, which is a bit more than I'm willing to pay for a high mileage motor.

The current build I'm thinking of doing is:
rebuild the b7 block (all new seals / rings / bearings)
arp rod bolts
mill the y8 head .020 (putting the block at 11.25:1 according to zealautoworks)
272-2 regrind
upgraded springs / retainers
adjustable cam gear
arp head studs
y8 3 layer head gasket

I can get the head milled for free so really the most expensive part will be the cam / springs upgrade. I figure any money spent on the head isn't really lost as someday when I'm out of college (say 2 or 3 years) I could rebuild the y8 block and pair it with this head.
your spending money on things that wouldnt need to be upgraded on a z6 and also wouldnt make more power over a z6.

your over complicating things.

save your money, find a low mileage or good condition z6. mill the head, add arps, add a hg, get a 59300 cam, they dont require springs and retainers, just dont rev past 8k. from what ive read everyone makes power with them straight up, so no adj cam gear needed.

youll most likely spend less then what you mentioned above, and make more power.

your choice.

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Old 11-05-2015, 11:42 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Full_Tilt View Post
Finding a not-blown-up Z6 or A6 longblock has gotten really difficult in my area. If you do find one, its 400-500 bucks.
For a few more bucks I could go get a complete low miles JDM D15B or ZC swap from a local JDM warehouse.

Im not sure what to tell you OP. Your B7 probably needs to be bored over, so if you cant afford machine shop work, that option is out.
That's another good option actually. I'm not fully set on the b7 build I do wanna dig into it a bit first and see how it looks internally before making a decision.

Quote:
Originally Posted by STRATTON View Post
your spending money on things that wouldnt need to be upgraded on a z6 and also wouldnt make more power over a z6.

your over complicating things.

save your money, find a low mileage or good condition z6. mill the head, add arps, add a hg, get a 59300 cam, they dont require springs and retainers, just dont rev past 8k. from what ive read everyone makes power with them straight up, so no adj cam gear needed.

youll most likely spend less then what you mentioned above, and make more power.

your choice.

stratton.
The only thing I have against buying a used motor is and not doing anything lower end is what if something is wrong with it. I bought this b7 last year (they claimed low mileage) on it and the rings are failing already and I've only put about 4k on it . I just really don't want that to happen again. And that's cool about the 59300 cam I don't have plans to rev past more than say 7500 so that's a good idea. Thanks

I should probably add my budget will be max of $750 but less is always better.

Last edited by Fast_Eddie; 11-05-2015 at 11:58 AM.
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Old 11-05-2015, 02:59 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast_Eddie View Post
I'd like a z6 but their not really available around here. There's only one for sale in the relative area at the moment and it's $450, which is a bit more than I'm willing to pay for a high mileage motor.

The current build I'm thinking of doing is:
rebuild the b7 block (all new seals / rings / bearings)
arp rod bolts
mill the y8 head .020 (putting the block at 11.25:1 according to zealautoworks)
272-2 regrind
upgraded springs / retainers
adjustable cam gear
arp head studs
y8 3 layer head gasket

I can get the head milled for free so really the most expensive part will be the cam / springs upgrade. I figure any money spent on the head isn't really lost as someday when I'm out of college (say 2 or 3 years) I could rebuild the y8 block and pair it with this head.
that's a turbo cam. 272 is a n/a cam. and yes, z6 or a6 is still your best bet. if youre worried, hmotorsonline has engines for 450 and theyre supposedly 60k km on the clock


your budget is 750? I have a member on here do the machine work on my engine and it ran me 400. that with balancing the fjt rods and pistons. that was for a turbo motor
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Old 11-05-2015, 03:31 PM   #13 (permalink)
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my advice is to rebuild the B7. while I fully recommend new piston set for a nice fresh cylinder bore, new rings and new bearings on the bottom will easily set you up pretty well.

the d15 makes up its smaller displacement with stronger factory pistons than most and less rotating weight (if I remember, 4 or 5 pounds lighter than a d16 crank)


you can touch 12:1 compression no problem on 89 or 91 octane, it simply (easier said than done) needs a GOOD tuner and a bit more maintenance upkeep (keep the fuel system clean and happy, keep the ignition system strong, etc..)
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Old 11-05-2015, 03:51 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slo_eg8 View Post
that's a turbo cam. 272 is a n/a cam. and yes, z6 or a6 is still your best bet. if youre worried, hmotorsonline has engines for 450 and theyre supposedly 60k km on the clock


your budget is 750? I have a member on here do the machine work on my engine and it ran me 400. that with balancing the fjt rods and pistons. that was for a turbo motor
Yup I'd like to keep it under 750 including parts / machine work. I already have a chipped p06 and an aemwideband. I will be purchasing a chip burner and datalog cable when the time comes (not counting these towards the budget). And thanks for pointing out the cam I didn't know that. I actually do know a friend of a friend with a blown a6 so I'm gonna try to get more details on it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mattliston View Post
my advice is to rebuild the B7. while I fully recommend new piston set for a nice fresh cylinder bore, new rings and new bearings on the bottom will easily set you up pretty well.

the d15 makes up its smaller displacement with stronger factory pistons than most and less rotating weight (if I remember, 4 or 5 pounds lighter than a d16 crank)


you can touch 12:1 compression no problem on 89 or 91 octane, it simply (easier said than done) needs a GOOD tuner and a bit more maintenance upkeep (keep the fuel system clean and happy, keep the ignition system strong, etc..)
I don't think I'd like to go that high as I'm likely going to be street tuning it myself and this will be my first. I'd rather play it safe since I don't really want to do this twice haha.
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Old 11-05-2015, 04:05 PM   #15 (permalink)
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well, my engine was bored 75.5 and honed, the rods balanced, crank polished, painted block, cleaned, rings gapped, balanced the pistons with the rods, and main bearings....all for 400 and change. call around local machine shops and ask what they charge per cylinder to bore/hone and check the crank/polish. there are deals to be had on parts.

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Old 11-05-2015, 04:27 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Thanks for all the help slo_eg8 and everyone else. I appreciate you guys putting up with my noobness. I've got a lot more reading to do than I thought. I'm probably still gonna pull the motor this weekend although I'm not doing anything more to it than take a look inside. I haven't fully discarded the idea of a b7 build but a d16 build looks a bit more feasible than I imagine, and I might sell the lil saab turbo I have sitting on the coffee table for some extra funds.
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Old 11-05-2015, 04:38 PM   #17 (permalink)
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psssst, boost builds arnt that expensive either

turbo manis are out there for 100 all day, you already have a turbo and people sell intercooler parts cheap too. add some dsm injectors, tuning and you have a fun toy.....since youre building a block
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Old 11-05-2015, 05:04 PM   #18 (permalink)
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I'll let you in on a little secret - you can freshen up your b7 w/o a whole lot of work & only the cost of rings from ebay. Everything stays in the car besides the head & pistons.

If the bearings aren't spinning and your HG isn't leaking, here's the plan. Pull the head, drop the oil pan, then remove the connecting rod nuts. Read up on how to remove a rod that has pressed in studs w/o damaging crank or sleeves, mark the cylinder number & orientation of each piston/rod/cap.

Here's the tricky part: honing the block w/o getting swarf into the main bearings. Pack some grease into the cracks leading to/from the main bearings and temporarily seal the rod journal holes. Hone them cylinders like normal. Wash out the cylinders & everything that the swarf may have dripped onto, then clean out the grease in the bearing cracks. If you are very anal, you can remove the main caps, push the top bearings out, and clean them by hand (recommended).

Reassemble the motor like normal & beat on it til you find a cheap Z6 block. I've done this to a Z6 before, and one of my friends has done it to at least 3 other cars.




As far as motor choice, ask your local machinist if they'd cross-drill the Y7 crank. That's really the big difference between the oiling systems, although many people swear all that's needed is to shim the oil pump relief spring (I'm not a believer). Other than that, I'd recommend the 272 cam instead. One user recently made over 400whp with one, so it can be used for either NA & turbo w/o issue.
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Old 11-05-2015, 06:02 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slo_eg8 View Post
psssst, boost builds arnt that expensive either

turbo manis are out there for 100 all day, you already have a turbo and people sell intercooler parts cheap too. add some dsm injectors, tuning and you have a fun toy.....since youre building a block
Lol that's actually basically the reason why I bought this turbo. It's a gt1752 and I got it for a hell of a deal. After some searching I saw 90civichillclimber used the same one for a bit (his build thread is awesome), but it may not be my smartest choice at the moment. I'm currently also in the midst of a full paint job / body work / rust repair on my hatch and that's drained me of funds pretty good. I think if I do build a d16 it will be capable of boost however it will probably stay na till the right time comes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HiProfile View Post
I'll let you in on a little secret - you can freshen up your b7 w/o a whole lot of work & only the cost of rings from ebay. Everything stays in the car besides the head & pistons.

If the bearings aren't spinning and your HG isn't leaking, here's the plan. Pull the head, drop the oil pan, then remove the connecting rod nuts. Read up on how to remove a rod that has pressed in studs w/o damaging crank or sleeves, mark the cylinder number & orientation of each piston/rod/cap.

Here's the tricky part: honing the block w/o getting swarf into the main bearings. Pack some grease into the cracks leading to/from the main bearings and temporarily seal the rod journal holes. Hone them cylinders like normal. Wash out the cylinders & everything that the swarf may have dripped onto, then clean out the grease in the bearing cracks. If you are very anal, you can remove the main caps, push the top bearings out, and clean them by hand (recommended).

Reassemble the motor like normal & beat on it til you find a cheap Z6 block. I've done this to a Z6 before, and one of my friends has done it to at least 3 other cars.




As far as motor choice, ask your local machinist if they'd cross-drill the Y7 crank. That's really the big difference between the oiling systems, although many people swear all that's needed is to shim the oil pump relief spring (I'm not a believer). Other than that, I'd recommend the 272 cam instead. One user recently made over 400whp with one, so it can be used for either NA & turbo w/o issue.
Thanks for the tips. I really like this idea due to the price haha. If I do go this route I'll likely still pull it though as I can work in a heated basement vs unheated garage. Plus I could pop in a new rear main seal / oil pan gasket. And are you suggesting I reuse my bearings provided they look still look good?
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Old 11-06-2015, 12:53 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Is this your daily car ? If not why rush to get it back running..

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