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Old 09-24-2015, 06:32 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Talking B7 Turbo build

Hello D-series.org. I need a little bit of guidance on a turbo project.

I have a d15b7 head, a 14b turbo, J/Down pipe, Chipped ecu (supposed to tune with Neptune).

As far as the cam goes, I want an a6 cam. Preferably getting a regrind done by Colt Cams (if anyone has any input on this). I'm not sure if stock a6 lobes would be ideal for boost. I also have a d16y8 block that has pretty healthy looking sleeves (unsure of mileage), as well as access to a d15b7 block with an aluminum crank. I will also be getting a set of 440 cc injectors.

A few questions:

- Would you recommend an adjustable cam gear or the stock a6 cam gear for this set up?

- Should I get the a6 reground, leave it stock, or use the b7 cam?

- for a mild performance set-up...just to get it on the road... will an OEM fuel pump suffice or is the Wally 255 mandatory?

- Which block would you recommend using? And if so the y8, how will this affect cam timing?

Thanks!
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Old 09-24-2015, 06:34 PM   #2 (permalink)
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aluminum crank? and do you know the limits of the b7's rods? how much have you read up on this?
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Old 09-24-2015, 06:37 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Sorry, aluminum crank PULLEY.

and yeah. from what I gather a b7 can handle modest amounts of power. Besides, if it blows up...it's a b7. not a huge deal for replacement, right?
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Old 09-24-2015, 06:39 PM   #4 (permalink)
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cheap always costs more in the long run. a6 cam, stock unless you want to pay more money for meh. upgrade the injectors, the rods will let go before the fuel system does
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Old 09-24-2015, 06:41 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Then is the Y8 block a good candidate? I know it will bolts on just fine. Sort of a reverse mini-me...not many people have done that combination from what I can see. With a B7 head gasket it looks like a CR of 9.2 or so
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Old 09-24-2015, 06:46 PM   #6 (permalink)
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youre still looking at the same issue. stock components don't like much more than 200hp. and the theory is y8's like to spin bearings. if its just to putt around, by all means, boost the b7 until you blow it up. if its a serious build search around and read
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Old 09-25-2015, 04:18 AM   #7 (permalink)
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poor future swiss ch3ese b7 block.
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Old 09-25-2015, 07:38 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HoMoCo View Post
- Would you recommend an adjustable cam gear or the stock a6 cam gear for this set up?

- Should I get the a6 reground, leave it stock, or use the b7 cam?

- for a mild performance set-up...just to get it on the road... will an OEM fuel pump suffice or is the Wally 255 mandatory?

- Which block would you recommend using? And if so the y8, how will this affect cam timing?

Thanks!
- Nope, use a y7/y8 cam gear; I don't recommend the a6 cam if you've never tried it before, especially when you can turn simply boost up.

- Nope, the stock cam will make enough power to overwhelm the rods quite easily, both b7 and y8 rods.

- Nope, the stock pump will provide more than the b7 rods can handle. A 190lph will handle more power than you'll likely ever make on a D-series. A 255 will require an aftermarket FPR (China/AEM/B&M will not work properly)

- The d16 will hold more power, albeit not by much. However if this is your first turbo build, chances are you will either blow it up or not finish it as prices (or issues) spiral out of control.


The threads you've seen with 200+ whp stock B7 blocks and 300+ whp stock D16 blocks are generally from master Honda tuners (both the kit builder & tuner are at the top of their games). If you are a n00b to turbocharging a Honda, chances are you'll run into lots of issues. If you keep the motor stock to begin with, you'll have FAR LESS issues. I don't mean to discourage you from this project, I've just noticed not heeding this advice ends up being a far larger discouragement to people new to turbos when they run into a dozen complex issues they can't solve.
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Old 09-25-2015, 08:33 AM   #9 (permalink)
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I ran a stk B7 bottom end with A6 cam, Z6 intake, with a 60 trim T3 at about 7lbs of boost and it did well until I tried to put a cheap aftermarket FPR on it. Diaphragm ripped and filled my cylinder’s full of gas and I bent 2 rods.fficeffice" />>>
>>
I have run 8psi on stk pistons with success, but have busted ring lands when I turned it up to 10psi (first ring land on a stk piston is pretty close to the top of the piston). I will say a 10psi 60 trim T3 boosted B7 is a lot of fun to DD. I have not put mine on the dyno yet, but it has to be close to 200hp.>>
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Old 09-25-2015, 09:11 AM   #10 (permalink)
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200whp is your limit on a good tune. on a GREAT tune and PROPER driving style (no mashing when cold, normal oil changes, etc..) you can go above but 90% fail.

strive to make a nice round 150-160whp. you will be happy, and it will last a long time. Save up for a PROPER engine build!!
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Old 09-25-2015, 05:05 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattliston View Post
200whp is your limit on a good tune. on a GREAT tune and PROPER driving style (no mashing when cold, normal oil changes, etc..) you can go above but 90% fail.

strive to make a nice round 150-160whp. you will be happy, and it will last a long time. Save up for a PROPER engine build!!
OP, read this then when you done read it again
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Old 09-26-2015, 01:01 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by HiProfile View Post
- Nope, use a y7/y8 cam gear; I don't recommend the a6 cam if you've never tried it before, especially when you can turn simply boost up.

- Nope, the stock cam will make enough power to overwhelm the rods quite easily, both b7 and y8 rods.

- Nope, the stock pump will provide more than the b7 rods can handle. A 190lph will handle more power than you'll likely ever make on a D-series. A 255 will require an aftermarket FPR (China/AEM/B&M will not work properly)

- The d16 will hold more power, albeit not by much. However if this is your first turbo build, chances are you will either blow it up or not finish it as prices (or issues) spiral out of control.


The threads you've seen with 200+ whp stock B7 blocks and 300+ whp stock D16 blocks are generally from master Honda tuners (both the kit builder & tuner are at the top of their games). If you are a n00b to turbocharging a Honda, chances are you'll run into lots of issues. If you keep the motor stock to begin with, you'll have FAR LESS issues. I don't mean to discourage you from this project, I've just noticed not heeding this advice ends up being a far larger discouragement to people new to turbos when they run into a dozen complex issues they can't solve.

I have a little experience with tuning and boost. I've done a few crappy little VW builds; currently have a (aftermarket chip, not tuned by me) turbo MK3 and I have helped someone map AFRs on a Hondata'd ZC 2 years ago. And I get what you're saying....tuning is everything. I know that.

The B7 turbo build will challenge me. That's the idea. If I fuck up, it's not the end of the world. Plus, I'll learn tons either way. I got the manifolds and 14b turbo from my friend for 200 bucks (since he's removed them from his Z6 build for a bigger one), I've got two blocks and an adjustable cam gear for an additional 100, I got the CX Civic complete for 200 and an Si transmission for another 50. I don't think I'm doing too bad on the $$ bottom line $$.

not to mention, my mate with the Z6 turbo won't mind giving me a few pointers on tuning; Just wanted some D-series.org opinions.
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Old 09-26-2015, 01:02 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattliston View Post
200whp is your limit on a good tune. on a GREAT tune and PROPER driving style (no mashing when cold, normal oil changes, etc..) you can go above but 90% fail.

strive to make a nice round 150-160whp. you will be happy, and it will last a long time. Save up for a PROPER engine build!!
I concur.
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Old 09-26-2015, 05:58 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thompson335 View Post
I ran a stk B7 bottom end with A6 cam, Z6 intake, with a 60 trim T3 at about 7lbs of boost and it did well until I tried to put a cheap aftermarket FPR on it. Diaphragm ripped and filled my cylinder’s full of gas and I bent 2 rods.fficeffice" />>>
>>
I have run 8psi on stk pistons with success, but have busted ring lands when I turned it up to 10psi (first ring land on a stk piston is pretty close to the top of the piston). I will say a 10psi 60 trim T3 boosted B7 is a lot of fun to DD. I have not put mine on the dyno yet, but it has to be close to 200hp.>>
If it was a good enough tune your probably over 250whp, I got my t3 60 .42/.48 tuned on the dyno (by a mediocre tune at best) and made 222whp and 177tq on 6psi. I have since fixed my tune more and turned to boost up to 7.5psi and hoping I'm making close to 240whp.
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Old 09-26-2015, 06:01 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
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If it was a good enough tune your probably over 250whp, I got my t3 60 .42/.48 tuned on the dyno (by a mediocre tune at best) and made 222whp and 177tq on 6psi. I have since fixed my tune more and turned to boost up to 7.5psi and hoping I'm making close to 240whp.
this always makes me smile. Im only looking for 250whp. block can probably handle 300+ but Id be satisfied with 250. so doing my compressor maps and stuff between 10 and 20psi (both within efficiency) it will handle it. 10psi should net me the power I want, and still have more air if I ever decide to raise the bar. <3
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Old 09-27-2015, 08:09 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by HoMoCo View Post
I have a little experience with tuning and boost. I've done a few crappy little VW builds; currently have a (aftermarket chip, not tuned by me) turbo MK3 and I have helped someone map AFRs on a Hondata'd ZC 2 years ago. And I get what you're saying....tuning is everything. I know that.

The B7 turbo build will challenge me. That's the idea. If I fuck up, it's not the end of the world. Plus, I'll learn tons either way. I got the manifolds and 14b turbo from my friend for 200 bucks (since he's removed them from his Z6 build for a bigger one), I've got two blocks and an adjustable cam gear for an additional 100, I got the CX Civic complete for 200 and an Si transmission for another 50. I don't think I'm doing too bad on the $$ bottom line $$.

not to mention, my mate with the Z6 turbo won't mind giving me a few pointers on tuning; Just wanted some D-series.org opinions.

Building a Honda is nothing like building a VW. Honestly a monkey could build a VW, buy the parts, bolt them on, slap a C2 chip in the ECU and install the supplied injectors and maf housing. Lol its a joke.

I guess if you wanted a challenge, building a D15B7 is a decent one. Good luck!

Hint one, there is no magic OBD2 chip you can install that will self learn and self correct. You will have to tune the engine yourself. No knock sensors, no crank and cam triggers, no missfire detection, etc.

Mechanically, turning the nuts and bolts will be the same. You will need to understand what you are doing when it comes to electrical/wiring modifications and tuning.
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Old 09-29-2015, 11:24 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Building a Honda is nothing like building a VW. Honestly a monkey could build a VW, buy the parts, bolt them on, slap a C2 chip in the ECU and install the supplied injectors and maf housing. Lol its a joke.

I guess if you wanted a challenge, building a D15B7 is a decent one. Good luck!

Hint one, there is no magic OBD2 chip you can install that will self learn and self correct. You will have to tune the engine yourself. No knock sensors, no crank and cam triggers, no missfire detection, etc.

Mechanically, turning the nuts and bolts will be the same. You will need to understand what you are doing when it comes to electrical/wiring modifications and tuning.
Thanks. Maybe see you at Mission sometime...
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Old 09-29-2015, 01:14 PM   #18 (permalink)
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You can install a Y8 crank trigger to steady the timing, that is how I run my B7. There is no misfire detection though.
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Old 10-04-2015, 09:18 AM   #19 (permalink)
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FarmerD is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !FarmerD is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !FarmerD is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !FarmerD is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !FarmerD is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !FarmerD is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !FarmerD is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !FarmerD is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !FarmerD is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !FarmerD is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !FarmerD is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !FarmerD is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HoMoCo View Post
Thanks. Maybe see you at Mission sometime...
Maybe, but that would be pretty creepy seeing some dude with a slow VW staring at me...



I would just say steer clear of the D15, use a D16 bottom end, and the Colt cam will work great for you. I run one in everything I build now since I have had nothing but success with Geoffs stuff.
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Originally Posted by Henry Ford
Whether you think you can, or you think you can't--you're right.
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