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Old 11-25-2014, 02:52 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Track guys chime in

Before I got into this whole tracking mess, I was set on a turbo d16 for the street/strip. I have accumulated quite a large amount of parts for the d16 platform and have previously contemplated using said parts for a turbo D16 time trial car for the future. I most likely won't start doing any major engine work until towards the end of next year because I want to zero the car out and repair/replace/upgrade worn suspension components first and get more seat time.

My dilemma now is that I have been considering a b18c GSR swap instead of running the turbo D for quite a few reasons. 1) CA smog, I will be able to BAR (legalize) a GSR swap into my car. 2) reliability, I won't have the time to develop a turbo d16 to be reliable on the track with issues of heat especially. 3) Less overall power would put less strain on my cars components.

Those are really the 3 biggest things for me at the moment. Any of the Turbo or N/A track guys want to share? I know this problem is not immediate but it has been bugging me for a while now.
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Old 11-25-2014, 03:03 PM   #2 (permalink)
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the cost of the swap alone makes turbo a win-win. turbo d @ 350 hp=reliable.
if you cant rock 350 with a lightweight Honda then buy a corvette
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Old 11-25-2014, 03:17 PM   #3 (permalink)
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If you're new to HPDE's, put a stock D16 in it. Power will only give you a steeper learning curve.
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Old 11-25-2014, 03:36 PM   #4 (permalink)
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If you're new to HPDE's, put a stock D16 in it. Power will only give you a steeper learning curve.
Your right. I should just focus on HPDE for now since that's where I'm at. I'm still at HPDE 2 and got a ways to go. What spring rates would you start with on a Koni/GC setup?
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Old 11-26-2014, 11:27 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Really depends on if you plan to get aero without having to change your suspension...

There was a local guy that raced a gsr with maybe 400# springs all around Type R front and rear swap bar no aero at Sebring. He's a pretty big dude but said he had no problems...
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Old 11-26-2014, 11:32 AM   #6 (permalink)
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If you're new to HPDE's, put a stock D16 in it. Power will only give you a steeper learning curve.
This is a good idea.

I've also heard that if you want to really race a turbo'd car, plan to double your budget.
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Old 11-26-2014, 12:06 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I like the smooth flat reliable NA power curve

of course a well set up turbo car can have a flat torque curve as well.
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Old 11-26-2014, 12:21 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I got a s2k....sold the turbo civic because of hpde

I wanted something less complex for the track. being new with that much power and extra fail points was hard...constant fight with heating issues, shit breking and it was all just to much

pm adam jaabay ask about the "dutch oven"
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Old 11-27-2014, 05:41 AM   #9 (permalink)
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When i first started doing HPDE I was using my 01 Mustang GT, before I actually did a event I modded almost every aspect of it, everything form engine work to rear end work, it was fun but I didn't have the proper linear curve experience that's necessary. I would find myself giving point by's to what i thought was lesser performing mustangs, but the truth of the matter was that they were just better drivers. With that being said I was in the same dilemma as you, I tracked my civic a couple of months right after i got it and my biggest concern was the lack of torque to pull itself out of corners. I immediately thought a small turbo. In my honest opinion you really cant beat the reliability of N/A, yes you can make a turbo D-series reliable, but with a turbo there are more moving parts, more stuff to go wrong. You really can't go wrong with a modded N/A b18C. As far as the GC/Koni, I would start with 500lbs springs all around.
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Old 11-27-2014, 09:24 AM   #10 (permalink)
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When i first started doing HPDE I was using my 01 Mustang GT, before I actually did a event I modded almost every aspect of it, everything form engine work to rear end work, it was fun but I didn't have the proper linear curve experience that's necessary. I would find myself giving point by's to what i thought was lesser performing mustangs, but the truth of the matter was that they were just better drivers. With that being said I was in the same dilemma as you, I tracked my civic a couple of months right after i got it and my biggest concern was the lack of torque to pull itself out of corners. I immediately thought a small turbo. In my honest opinion you really cant beat the reliability of N/A, yes you can make a turbo D-series reliable, but with a turbo there are more moving parts, more stuff to go wrong. You really can't go wrong with a modded N/A b18C. As far as the GC/Koni, I would start with 500lbs springs all around.
Thanks man. That's exactly what's going through my head and exactly what spring rates I was going to look into. Stock suspension is not fun anymore. And I feel that I can use the suspension mods at least for now.
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Old 11-27-2014, 10:35 AM   #11 (permalink)
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This is more my philosophy than actual experience, but .02 is NA is better for road racing, smooth predictable torque/hp (last thing you want as you exit a turn on the ragged edge is a big ol "BOOSH!!!" of power lol), less heat generated than a turbo setup should be more reliable, definitely more simple so less chance of something [email protected]#ing up and it being easier to resolve is something does f-up.

If I was building a drag car, turbo is the only correct answer. Even for a street car that you wanted to put some stank on and don't daily drive, I'd turbo it all day. For repeated long term beating the shinola out of purposes, as in road racing, I really believe NA is "the way"
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Old 11-27-2014, 01:55 PM   #12 (permalink)
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This is more my philosophy than actual experience, but .02 is NA is better for road racing, smooth predictable torque/hp (last thing you want as you exit a turn on the ragged edge is a big ol "BOOSH!!!" of power lol), less heat generated than a turbo setup should be more reliable, definitely more simple so less chance of something [email protected]#ing up and it being easier to resolve is something does f-up.

If I was building a drag car, turbo is the only correct answer. Even for a street car that you wanted to put some stank on and don't daily drive, I'd turbo it all day. For repeated long term beating the shinola out of purposes, as in road racing, I really believe NA is "the way"
Yeah I will get a second car to daily before I start tinkering with the coupe. By the end of January I will most likely have enough to buy a reliable daily and I will figure out what steps to take next after that purchase.
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Old 11-27-2014, 02:12 PM   #13 (permalink)
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If built right turbo cars are great on the track. Most guys don't know how to build their engine or car correctly. You have to have your entire set up planned (including transmission, tire size, suspension, engine mods) long before you ever start building it and be willing to spend money. Biggest issue is heat and brakes once you do turbo a track car. Personal opinion is run the car on a stock engine and have fun
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Old 11-27-2014, 02:37 PM   #14 (permalink)
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If built right turbo cars are great on the track. Most guys don't know how to build their engine or car correctly. You have to have your entire set up planned (including transmission, tire size, suspension, engine mods) long before you ever start building it and be willing to spend money. Biggest issue is heat and brakes once you do turbo a track car. Personal opinion is run the car on a stock engine and have fun
Yes to having fun! Any track time is better than none. I just dislike how "uninspiring" the car feels. It's like a damn boat with the stock spring rates and the absence of Anti-roll bars (my '00 DX came like that oem). I will start with koni/gc and fix whatever bushings and joints need to be fixed and go on from there. I haven't maximized my hawk hp+ pads so I don't feel the need to upgrade yet. But with 500 lb./in. all around and a family, I feel a second car will be in order.
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Old 11-27-2014, 02:39 PM   #15 (permalink)
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a little video from my last HPDE in September. Yeah I still got a lot to work on, but damn this stuff is too fun!

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Old 11-28-2014, 05:25 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Yes to having fun! Any track time is better than none. I just dislike how "uninspiring" the car feels. It's like a damn boat with the stock spring rates and the absence of Anti-roll bars (my '00 DX came like that oem). I will start with koni/gc and fix whatever bushings and joints need to be fixed and go on from there. I haven't maximized my hawk hp+ pads so I don't feel the need to upgrade yet. But with 500 lb./in. all around and a family, I feel a second car will be in order.
I second that, I'm running Hawk HP plus pads front and rear and love them, I have yet to experience any fade even on the long straights of Sebring. I even use them everyday, although they are noisy, and are heavily dirty.
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Old 11-28-2014, 06:21 AM   #17 (permalink)
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ok so if your going to run on the street I wouldn't recommend 500lbs in all 4 corners. I would run what Ground control would tell you. which is 340F & 250R. The the next step being 380F & 350R from what they tell me this is as harsh of a setup you would want on the street. On my track only I run 600 front 500 rear with a 22mm rear bar. I wouldn't drive it on the street unless I absolutely had to.
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Old 11-28-2014, 08:22 AM   #18 (permalink)
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ok so if your going to run on the street I wouldn't recommend 500lbs in all 4 corners. I would run what Ground control would tell you. which is 340F & 250R. The the next step being 380F & 350R from what they tell me this is as harsh of a setup you would want on the street. On my track only I run 600 front 500 rear with a 22mm rear bar. I wouldn't drive it on the street unless I absolutely had to.
Weight is a factor and ride height as well. My car weighs 2474 with me and a half tank. I want at least 1/2" finger gap on 225/45/15. I've ridden 400 all around in a full interior gsr and it felt fine, granted that car is a couple hundred pounds heavier.

What chassis is your track only car? Do you trailer that to the track? My car will not be a daily eventually but will be driven to and from the track. I will give gc a call though and see what they recommend. Also probably buy them from thmotorsports with the tophats.
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Old 11-30-2014, 05:42 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Its more fun to track a slow car. I'm not kidding. I have a 400whp time attack car (dutch oven) and a 140 whp racecar (Scca STL class, d15 build). I like the racecar a whole lot more. I've spent 10 years developing the time attack car and I constantly find something else to break . Its more a street car now.

Konis/gc's are a great combo.... I run konis on both, race valveing, 550 front 600 and 700 rear, track dependant

Big rear bar, no front on both
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Old 11-30-2014, 06:06 AM   #20 (permalink)
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^^^^ This right here. Your spring rates are a bit high for me but definitely in the right combination
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