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Old 04-20-2010, 12:48 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default SCCA Classing Help?

Ok, so at the moment i drive a B12 Sentra Coupe, and the basic construction of the chassis is bad for racing (way to much roll/flex and macstrut), so i'm going to be moving to an EF/CRX Si (most likely CRX), and spending the next year building it. the car will be for mostly track days/HPDE's, but will see some AutoX. SCCA classing is important for both, regardless.

i've been reading the Update/Backdate rulings for Street Prepared, and i need some clarification.

Keep in mind I have readily available 94 octane and 94 /w 10% ethanol blend from the pump locally, and the car will not be DD'd.

I would LIKE to run the stock A6 bottom end, with a Port matched Y8 head/manifold. the manifold/fuel system/ECU is unrestricted for the SP category anyway, so the manifold is not the issue.

I would like to run this "mini-me" setup for the obvious CR boost on the A6, and the addition of a Vtec head.

the Y8 head would be stock, other than the port matching. What I'm wondering is if the head counts as a "Complete Assembly" or if it has to be the entire engine.

Any help would be great. I'll be running a Y8 hydro tranny with this (complies with update/backdate).
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Old 04-20-2010, 10:58 PM   #2 (permalink)
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you'll end up in the Slow Mother Focker class, aka SMF with the head swap. Keep the stock CRX Si tranny for it's gearing.

Only SP class you'd be in is Open SP......

89 CRX HF with D16A6/Y8 Head.....fuck the class I just wanna scare cones and myself while having fun.
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Old 04-21-2010, 10:09 AM   #3 (permalink)
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you'll end up in the Slow Mother Focker class, aka SMF with the head swap. Keep the stock CRX Si tranny for it's gearing.

Only SP class you'd be in is Open SP......

89 CRX HF with D16A6/Y8 Head.....fuck the class I just wanna scare cones and myself while having fun.
i'm still considering it as the car will see tracks more than it'll see cones. and with being in SM, it would have the works.

crower S3 cam and springs/retainers to match, full machining, 3 angle job, you get the picture.
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Old 04-21-2010, 10:13 AM   #4 (permalink)
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You'll be running against Evo monsters in sm. It will suck. If you go that route pray there is a smf class.
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Old 04-21-2010, 10:32 AM   #5 (permalink)
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You'll be running against Evo monsters in sm. It will suck. If you go that route pray there is a smf class.
for autocross or track purposes? most of the tracks in my corner of the northwest (vancouver/seattle/kent) are short lower speed courses with lots of turns. only reason for the bump in power is the need for some straightaway umph.

oh and please don't take this as arguing with you. i'm not trying to. just squaring down whether "evo monsters" will be an issue in this area or not.
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Old 04-21-2010, 10:39 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Those Evo's, when built right, are damn hard to beat on short or long tracks and autox. We have a couple sm evo's around here and they are always at the top of the standings. One of them took the fastest time of the weekend at the Weatherly hillclimb. A sm street car (that the guy drives to the events) beat out dedicated hillclimb race cars for king of the hill.
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Old 04-21-2010, 12:29 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by 90civichillclimber View Post
Those Evo's, when built right, are damn hard to beat on short or long tracks and autox. We have a couple sm evo's around here and they are always at the top of the standings. One of them took the fastest time of the weekend at the Weatherly hillclimb. A sm street car (that the guy drives to the events) beat out dedicated hillclimb race cars for king of the hill.
wow. that's pretty unreal.
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Old 04-24-2010, 10:21 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Where in WA are you located, more importantly where do you plan to run? Im in Oly and am pretty active in rally/rallycross/autocross/time trials/HPDE in the area. My wife and I are both working towards the ultimate goal of stage rally and club racing.

Also, theres many here that would argue otherwise, but for a dedicated track car youd be much better off building an EG hatchback.

Check out the Road Racing/Autocross forum on H-T (yeah, I said it!)

Its nothing like the rest of the H-T douchebaggery, theres lots of knowledgeable people there who are more than willing to help as long as you are willing to help yourself.
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Old 04-25-2010, 09:41 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Atmosfear View Post
Where in WA are you located, more importantly where do you plan to run? Im in Oly and am pretty active in rally/rallycross/autocross/time trials/HPDE in the area. My wife and I are both working towards the ultimate goal of stage rally and club racing.

Also, theres many here that would argue otherwise, but for a dedicated track car youd be much better off building an EG hatchback.

Check out the Road Racing/Autocross forum on H-T (yeah, I said it!)

Its nothing like the rest of the H-T douchebaggery, theres lots of knowledgeable people there who are more than willing to help as long as you are willing to help yourself.
thanks. i'm actually in Kelowna, British Columbia. i'll be running at Mission, Pitt Meadows, Seattle, Kent, possibly more.

i know an EG would be better, but unfortunately, imports are expensive used up here as is, and i have a handle on a CRX shell that's had all the body work done recently for $500. best i could find an EG for is 1500-2000, and then i'd still have to do all the body work to get rid of the rust.
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Old 04-25-2010, 10:05 PM   #10 (permalink)
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How about you do a high-compression motor, port the stock manifold and all the exhaust and try to run stock class?... just saying.. This isn't nascar, they don't do a tear-down if you're a points leader..
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Old 04-26-2010, 02:54 PM   #11 (permalink)
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How about you do a high-compression motor, port the stock manifold and all the exhaust and try to run stock class?... just saying.. This isn't nascar, they don't do a tear-down if you're a points leader..
Thats not entirely accurate. It is possible if he competed in national events however its very unlikely in regional events.
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Old 04-26-2010, 03:04 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Minor thread jack here, but still on a similar topic. I was just reading through the SM rules for 2010 (I run in SMF) and I found something I hadn't noticed before.

Engine block must be a production unit manufactured and badged
the same as the original standard or optional engine for that model.

Does that mean no b18, h22, etc. swaps in SM. Since those engines were not optional for the civic. It sounds like the b16 is still good, because there was a version in Japan, so this paragraph allows this:

This allows engine blocks manufactured as production
units for sale in other countries such as Japan or Germany.

Just curious because I remember a few years ago there was a GSR swapped civic hatch that did pretty well in SM at nationals. So is this an update to the rules, when I finally get my f23 swap together am I going to have to be in a Prepared class?

/thread jack

To OP since the CRX was never offered with a VTEC engine I don't believe the update/backdate rule would apply here.
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Old 04-26-2010, 09:56 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by d-serious View Post
How about you do a high-compression motor, port the stock manifold and all the exhaust and try to run stock class?... just saying.. This isn't nascar, they don't do a tear-down if you're a points leader..
You could. However, the sanctioning body has every right to tear down every inch of the car if they believe you are lying about your classing, and they do NOT have to put it back together. you'd be surprised how sticky some of the old farts can be when they start losing by huge margins to cars.

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Minor thread jack here, but still on a similar topic. I was just reading through the SM rules for 2010 (I run in SMF) and I found something I hadn't noticed before.

Engine block must be a production unit manufactured and badged
the same as the original standard or optional engine for that model.

Does that mean no b18, h22, etc. swaps in SM. Since those engines were not optional for the civic. It sounds like the b16 is still good, because there was a version in Japan, so this paragraph allows this:

This allows engine blocks manufactured as production
units for sale in other countries such as Japan or Germany.

Just curious because I remember a few years ago there was a GSR swapped civic hatch that did pretty well in SM at nationals. So is this an update to the rules, when I finally get my f23 swap together am I going to have to be in a Prepared class?

/thread jack

To OP since the CRX was never offered with a VTEC engine I don't believe the update/backdate rule would apply here.
here's the direct rule quote:

Quote:
Engine block must be a production unit manufactured and badged
the same as the original standard or optional engine for that model.
i'm not experienced, but i read that as "a honda engine must go in your honda chassis in order to remain classed in SM", based on this part:

Quote:
(e.g. Eagle Talon available originally with either a
Mitsubishi or Chrysler engine, may use any motor from Chrysler
or Mitsubishi).
otherwise that would barely leave any options open engine wise over SP. you would only be able to swap heads MAYBE, and even then you still can't do much internal work. the gap between SP and SM is supposed to be major. not being able to swap engines would seriously close that gap, and people that build for SM would be downright pissed after PAX

as for the SCCA classing of my own car, i'm not so concerned anymore. i'm more concerned with Road Racing classes now. autox days will only be to keep my seat in the pants in the stagnant lulls between track days next year. may add sway bars to the sentra to eliminate a lot of the roll and keep it as an autoX car as well as the daily.

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Old 04-26-2010, 10:49 PM   #14 (permalink)
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You could still make the gap between SP and SM huge using only engines that were available for that particular model (only engines available in civics able to be swapped into civics), there is still a lot of freedom there because you are allowed to do anything induction wise, and you could stroke and bore the motor. This would allow for a major power gap between SP and SM. I'm reasonably sure you can swap any motor you want for SM but the way that reads it sounds like the block has to be from the same model car.
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Old 04-27-2010, 08:19 AM   #15 (permalink)
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yeah it is a little confusing, but the added example of talons being able to use any mistubishi or chrysler engine makes it pretty sound.

ie. because the 1g talons had the option of mitsubishi or chrysler engines, they may use any chrysler or mitsubishi engine.
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Old 04-27-2010, 06:58 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Got an e-mail back from SCCA, I e-mailed their tech person just to be sure. You are right, it's supposed to mean any engine from a production vehicle from the same company.
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Old 05-01-2010, 08:45 AM   #17 (permalink)
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You could. However, the sanctioning body has every right to tear down every inch of the car if they believe you are lying about your classing, and they do NOT have to put it back together. you'd be surprised how sticky some of the old farts can be when they start losing by huge margins to cars.
Correct. One addition though, I have spoke with some Stewards in our region, and from what I am told if someone calls foul on your car, if after the tear down they find you were honest and within the rules then the person who called foul is responsible in some form or fashion to have your car put back together. This helps keep things like this is check, if things were not this way everytime someone got their feelings hurt they would call for a teardown.

If you were dishonest and not within the rules, they you are essentially assed out and have to put the car back together yourself.
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Old 05-01-2010, 10:57 PM   #18 (permalink)
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that's good to know. keeps people who are not 100% sure from firing their mouths of just a bit.
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