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Old 01-19-2019, 04:43 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Water Pump and BarnFind

Hi all,
I was pondering the ads for 1989 Hinda Civic, saw a deceased estate / barn find
for a dime, got the next bus to the location, paid the money, no questions except I wanted to see the motor running first.
Done deal, bought it.
It had been sitting for 2 years while the family's legals of deceased estate was being sorted. Needed new battery and it started with no problem what so ever.
1.5 twin carbs, and, exactly the same color and model of my current project.
So I now have 2 of these exactly the same, cept one is Auto, the project is 5 speed. I intend to keep them both, there is no urgency now to get my project Honda up and running, as I have a "twin".

I started to drive it back home, over 600Km, it ran perfectly, so I thought.

The temperature started to rise, stopped by the side of the highway, instantly guessed, water pump.

Farm house gate where I stopped, farmer helped with water, it gushed out as I was pouring. OUCH, in the middle of no where, 5k's from the town I had just passed.

Drove back to the open servo, under lights could see the obvious, it needs a water pump and I have minimal tools.

National road service offered 1 nights free accommodation, the only other option was to leave the car there, wait 10-15 days to tow it back, first 200ks free, I would have had to pay for the next 300ks.
No Deal.

I decided to fix it myself at the motel carpark. Had enough tools to do the job. We just had a heat wave, I had 2-3 days to do this. The sun was blistering, direct sunlight after 1pm.

When I got to point of trying to remove the harmonic balancer bolt, the breaker bar and starter motor method did not work. It would not crack that bolt.
A local came around with his Snap-On 18V rattle gun, did not budge that bolt.
Motel "grace" time was running out, manager could only give me so much time to fix a car in his parking lot, understandably.

Stranded 500 kms from home on a Sunday, only one water pump available in the whole of the nation, 400kms away. Or wait till Tuesday for it to be delivered.
Friend went and picked up that water pump, drove all the way to drop it off, and the floor jack with a pair of jack stands, then drove back. No charge, just pay for the pump.
Thank You.

Local community, a club of sorts, went there for dinner and started to hustle to store the Honda till I get this dilemma sorted.
Was allowed to store only the car, so it was towed to that location, got bus back home.
Drove back with the friend in my van, determined to fix the car and drive it back. ( all other options was a no go, long stories, do ask if you want to
know )

This we did, towed the the car by rope to a " side of the road" spot, next to a used car yard, under their flood lights. It was now Saturday night, 9.30pm, 6 days after I bought the Honda.

The ONLY option was to cut the bottom plastic timing cover with what everr means possible, we used a range of tin snips, side cutters, whatever so to cut enough to loosen belt tensioner and remove pump, install new pump, put back everything except the Air Conditioner, and shot-gun drive back home.

Upon inspection, the timing belt was new, and so was the pump.
So why did the pump seize ??

Well, the only conclusion, after observing the pump, half of the rotor was rusted. The rest of the pump looked fine.

I think, because the Honda had been sitting for 2 years in a shed/barn waiting to be sold, the water was not drained. The metal pipe behind the pump, being made of steal, started to surface rust, and this caught onto the rotor of the pump, eventually corroding the bearing.
Seizure.
Re-assembled everything, 3.30 am by now, adrenalin was still high for us 60 year old old skool tinkerers, we drove out of this town, rested till sunrise at a truck stop, bacon n eggs for breakfast and drive back home.

I am impressed with the condition of this car, it drove not missing a beat.
207000 Kms on the clock, well looked after be previous owner, except for some paint fade, a few scratches, but hey, $550.00 AU

Question

How do I remove that Harmonic balancer bolt ?
It is stuck, rattle gun did not budge it.
I'm think direct heat onto the bolt, then try rattle gun again ?

Thanks.

Last edited by Pete578; 01-21-2019 at 07:52 AM.
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Old 01-19-2019, 12:57 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Default Siezed "new" water pump

Picture of water seized pump
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Old 01-20-2019, 08:42 AM   #3 (permalink)
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stubborn

fun adventure.


as for yhe balance r bolt ,get a stronger impact gun..

Last edited by robgoof; 01-20-2019 at 08:44 AM.
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Old 01-20-2019, 12:54 PM   #4 (permalink)
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When I got to point of trying to remove the harmonic balancer bolt, the breaker bar and starter motor method did not work. It would not crack that bolt.
You know the motor spins counter clockwise right? The 'starter motor / breaker bar' method is for motors that spin clockwise or have reverse thread crank bolts. Basically you just tightened the absolute F*** out of it. Lucky it didn't shear off.

A couple of methods that have worked for me in the past on ridiculously tight crank pulley bolts, start by letting it soak in WD40 and then:

- Take it to a truck mechanic to zap it with one of their air guns and then re torque to spec so you can drive it home and undo it normally.

- Remove the flywheel inspection plate, lock the flywheel by putting something like a large screw driver of a big punch between the flywheel teeth and the trans case. You might need someone to hold it in place so it doesn't fall out. Use an extension on a breaker bar and slip a pipe over the handle of the breaker bar (i've used 2m long pipe) which gives you ridiculous amounts of leverage. You risk taking a chunk out of your trans case with this method, but i've never had it happen to me.
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Old 01-21-2019, 07:32 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
You know the motor spins counter clockwise right? The 'starter motor / breaker bar' method is for motors that spin clockwise or have reverse thread crank bolts. Basically you just tightened the absolute F*** out of it. Lucky it didn't shear off.
I wasn't thinking, no excuses really.

It did dawn on me though, something is not making sense with starter/breaker bar method...
I just wanted to get rolling, get home. But yeah...

Quote:
Take it to a truck mechanic to zap it with one of their air guns and then re torque to spec so you can drive it home and undo it normally.
I removed the pump by cutting the bottom plastic timing cover so to give me enough room to loosen belt tensioner and remove pump. Used cable ties to hold belt.

The picture shows where we replaced the pump, in a country town next to a car yard,started about 10pm, finished it 3.30 am.
Air Con pump was not put back on to save time and get the heck outta there.

It was a Saturday night, drunks and revelers yelling, some angry, some dazed. Being yelled at by drunks, but holding a hammer soon quietened them.
Cops lights flashing, someone was getting arrested and a car chase went past.

Can't seem to rotate the picture though, it's upside down.
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Old 01-21-2019, 07:51 AM   #6 (permalink)
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This picture shows the first attempt before time ran out at motel car park.
This is when a local came around with the 18V impact rattle gun, but would not budge it.
It was then decided to cut around the plastic bottom half of timing belt cover, but had to move car first out of motel car park.
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Old 01-21-2019, 12:04 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Love me some Laguna Gold.
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Old 01-29-2019, 04:08 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Finally figured how to correct the photos when they are upside down.

So I'll post a few more pics to complete the story.

First photo is re-posted showing where we replaced the water pump at night between 10.30pm to 3.30am, not able to remove the harmonic balancer, as mentioned, we cut away enough plastic from from the bottom half of timing belt cover to be able to loosen belt tensioner and remove water pump.

A better pic of the water pump and how it damaged after 2 years not started.


The timing belt is new, and so was the water pump.
By the looks of things,
a: coolant mix must have dissolved after 2 years.
b: the rust is not from the pump, it seems it started from that pipe behind the pump, and "travelled" towards the pump, eating away the bearing and seals.
c: the pump obviously looks new, same as the timing belt.

It became an easy fix once the water pump was off.

Just waiting now for some loose ends to be sorted, car will be on the road registered in our state, will be my new daily while re-building it's "twin's" motor.
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Old 01-29-2019, 04:14 AM   #9 (permalink)
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EFB055 Love me some Laguna Gold.
I'll have to get some

https://www.paintscratch.com/touch_u...-YR-87M-4.html
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Old 02-14-2019, 01:07 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Straight water in the cooling system? Must be somewhere hot again -- yep, OP is from Oz.

Here's the water pump I pulled out of a JDM EH1 with DOHC ZC in New Zealand. What's the problem?

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Old 02-14-2019, 02:33 PM   #11 (permalink)
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the problem is that you dont have a pump,

not trying to be funny but i think ur motor needs to be rebuild if its even possible because if your pump looks like this... your water jackets wont be much better
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Old 02-14-2019, 02:55 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Epic.

Thanks for sharing the story, mate.
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Old 02-15-2019, 01:37 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Well the same car is still sitting under the carport, just waiting for the rego to run out of another car, then the Honda Auto is gonna be my daily, can't wait, lol
It starts first time every time, no smoke,
and for now no timing belt cover,
well, half a cover.

What does not seem to work is the thermo fan, just does not want to cut in.
have to check relays, if I can find out which one it is.

while I'm waiting for it go on the road, get new set of spark plugs, engine oil flush treatment and new good oil.
Despite the "debating societies's opinion, my choice of engine oil
is ULX 110
Woops, here we go..ducking for cover
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Old 02-15-2019, 01:52 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Sailor
Epic.

Thanks for sharing the story, mate.
Thanks
Quote:
someone
the problem is that you dont have a pump,

not trying to be funny but i think ur motor needs to be rebuild if its even possible because if your pump looks like this... your water jackets wont be much better
Our tap water can do that and worse

..

Quote:
deschlong
Straight water in the cooling system? Must be somewhere hot again -- yep, OP is from Oz.

Here's the water pump I pulled out of a JDM EH1 with DOHC ZC in New Zealand. What's the problem?
Add coolant mix and de-mineralized water.

Back in the day, the 70's...Chrysler used "soluble oil" in their service recommendations. They phased it out when all these new chemicals became the norm. Never had a problem with water pumps or corrosion back then when it was used. But a pain to flush out, goes gooey and white.
Where I'm at, don't drink tap water, has fluoride in it for our "dental benefit".

I simply buy 20 container of decriminalized water, green or red stuff additive, make my own type of thing...problem solved since the 80's
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Old 02-15-2019, 06:40 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete578 View Post
Thanks


Our tap water can do that and worse

..


Add coolant mix and de-mineralized water.

Back in the day, the 70's...Chrysler used "soluble oil" in their service recommendations. They phased it out when all these new chemicals became the norm. Never had a problem with water pumps or corrosion back then when it was used. But a pain to flush out, goes gooey and white.
Where I'm at, don't drink tap water, has fluoride in it for our "dental benefit".

I simply buy 20 container of decriminalized water, green or red stuff additive, make my own type of thing...problem solved since the 80's
well the still make the best coolant out there.
there stuff for the charger 300c etc 2006-... is the best out there
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Old 02-17-2019, 12:20 PM   #16 (permalink)
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The relay's are on the intake side of the engine bay, usually attached behind the drivers headlight (in RHD)

1) Check your fuse first because it's easiest
2) Check the switch at the back of the block - the two wire sensor next to the oil filter, put the car onto IGN 2 and bridge the wires together. If the fan comes on, your switch is stuffed. If it doesnt come on:
3) Listen for the relay click. If it doesn't:
4) Either replace the relay and check again or check for continuity between the switch and the relay. If there's continuity, or the relay does click:
5) Check the fan with 12V and ground.

If all those check out, you could have a bad air pocket in the block.
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Old 02-17-2019, 04:27 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
The relay's are on the intake side of the engine bay, usually attached behind the drivers headlight (in RHD)

1) Check your fuse first because it's easiest
2) Check the switch at the back of the block - the two wire sensor next to the oil filter, put the car onto IGN 2 and bridge the wires together. If the fan comes on, your switch is stuffed. If it doesnt come on:
3) Listen for the relay click. If it doesn't:
4) Either replace the relay and check again or check for continuity between the switch and the relay. If there's continuity, or the relay does click:
5) Check the fan with 12V and ground.

If all those check out, you could have a bad air pocket in the block.
I know the fan works with wires to battery method.
Fuses OK and the Relays do click when I wire tested.
When I do the oil filter and under-body stuff on ramps, will check the others.
Cheers
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Old 02-22-2019, 01:23 AM   #18 (permalink)
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It came on on it's own eventually, stayed on for a while.
never showed hot on gauge, not even near half.
I guess it's ok then.
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Old 02-22-2019, 02:21 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
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It came on on it's own eventually, stayed on for a while.
never showed hot on gauge, not even near half.
I guess it's ok then.
Could be that there's a short in the wiring somewhere?
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Old 04-08-2019, 06:38 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Update on this car, it is finally on the road and now my daily.

Not without minor issues, but now sorted.

On the day I got it on the road, after testing cooling system, fan comes on, brakes OK, temperaMental radio- comes on and goes off, has a mind of it's own. It's the On/Off switch. It's one of those old Kenwood cassette player radio that ya slide the entire radio in or out of the slot, security back in the day.

Went to fill up, checked under hood, and what do I see ? stream of water on top tank of radiator. Oh shites, I hope it ain't blown a gasket and exploding the plastic tank.
New radiator that same day, all good, no leaks, no "blown-head-gasket" type of symptoms. Lucky.


But, had massive massive wheel bearing like noise coming from every direction in the car.
It was obvious what the problem was. ALL tyres the previous owner had put on were those cheap imported tyres, from China.
Fortunately the other ED had a set of 4 brand new tyres on those rims. Changed the 2 front first, road test, half the noises gone. Done the rear 2 tyres. ALL "wheel bearing like noise" eliminated. Runs smooth except for noisy exhaust, rust hole in middle muffler, booked in to sort that out. hate that noise of a leaky muffler hole, embarrassing really.

Next booked in job on the list is that Harmonic balancer pulley bolt that goes in the crankshaft. Booked in at my motor engineers workshop next week, see if they can crack it. I need to get the pulley off and check the valve timing.
When it broke down with the water pump earlier in the story, when we loosened the belt to get the pump off, I slipped a tooth or 2. so it is a guess that it is 100 % right on the mark. I think we got it right, it has done by now over 1000 Kms since with no issues and idles smoothly, all seems good.
But the plastic timing belt covers need replacing, cos we had to cut them low enough to get to the water pump, on the side of the road at a country town in the middle of nowhere, Australia. We DO do things here a bit differently.


All in all, a good car, a good score.
This car will not yet get all the cosmetic treatments and fancy wheels etc etc... That is the other project, the motor I been building, THAT ED will have the "specials" done to it as time and money permits.

IF I do do up my daily, the 4 speed auto, then definitely the twin cam conversion gig. Long way away before I start on it...but may as well start gathering the things required to do a conversion.

I can put this epic story to rest I think, car is on the road and cruzin just fine.
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