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Old 10-09-2018, 11:08 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Building d16z6 turbo

So I have little knowledge on turbos I know how they work and the general info no in depth info though.

I have a mini me in my car right now it’s b7/z6 mini me. I want to boost so I am going to get a junk yard short block for a z6 so I am a full z6 motor and I’m gonna build it while I daily my mini me. I want to do the pistons and rods I’m looking at the eagle set at the moment for 600$ my question is what am I gonna need to do as far as head work goes and what other mods for the lower block? I just had the head re valved new valve seals and guides put in .I’m hoping to put a t3/t4 turbo from eBay (kind of a budget build don’t hate on me for it) I would like to achieve 3-400 hp any info appreciated thanks
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Old 10-09-2018, 04:07 PM   #2 (permalink)
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A block guard is cheap insurance arp head studs is a must.port and shim your oil pump .
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Old 10-09-2018, 04:09 PM   #3 (permalink)
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What is your budget and time frame? I have to ask lol cause there are many ways things can go. Super bottom of the barrel budget, mid range, or top notch. You will get on the road fast at the bottom of the barrel, but it probably won't last and quality will be lacking.

I have almost $6000 into my current D build, EMS components and its matching transmission/drivetrain over the last two and a bit years and it isn't even on the road yet. Money at the moment is currently going into chassis prep and support more than anything!

It's a good thing you have another engine aside to build, in my opinion that is the best way to attempt a turbo build. That way the car is still useful in the interim, unless you can drop $6000+ up front immediately in just parts AND have someone else do most of the work for you with labor costs. (I can barely afford one of them lmao!)
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Old 10-09-2018, 06:50 PM   #4 (permalink)
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What is your budget and time frame? I have to ask lol cause there are many ways things can go. Super bottom of the barrel budget, mid range, or top notch. You will get on the road fast at the bottom of the barrel, but it probably won't last and quality will be lacking.

I have almost $6000 into my current D build, EMS components and its matching transmission/drivetrain over the last two and a bit years and it isn't even on the road yet. Money at the moment is currently going into chassis prep and support more than anything!

It's a good thing you have another engine aside to build, in my opinion that is the best way to attempt a turbo build. That way the car is still useful in the interim, unless you can drop $6000+ up front immediately in just parts AND have someone else do most of the work for you with labor costs. (I can barely afford one of them lmao!)
Realistically i think just motor And turbo I want to throw out 2-2,500 I want to only have it down for about a week I’m not gonna push it out the gate just work it in slowly while downing it for a week here and there to do a tranny suspension and all that stuff but at the moment I’m solely focused on the motor aspect
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Old 10-09-2018, 06:51 PM   #5 (permalink)
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A block guard is cheap insurance arp head studs is a must.port and shim your oil pump .
Never heard of port and shimming your oil pump what exactly is that?
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Old 10-09-2018, 07:55 PM   #6 (permalink)
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There is lots of discussion on this forum about porting and shimming D series oil pumps. I won't get into specifics, as everyone seems to have their own pros and cons of doing certain things. You can search and find plenty of threads and come to your own conclusion, I won't bias you one way or the other

You're braver than I am, I ended up spending $2500 on stuff before I even bought anything related to engine internals! (mostly because of my pickiness and custom nature). There are lots of folks on here who have pulled off budget builds for around your price range, I'm sure you will find a template to follow! Sorry I can't provide more specifics, I don't want to pull you down a path you don't want!
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Old 10-10-2018, 05:55 AM   #7 (permalink)
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cant get more budget than vitara set up. look into p2p0 rods. they are custom length to keep your compression up. also they are good price. you may need to notch the block for them to fit. (possibly with eagles youd need to as well)

for 300- 400 hp you dont need to do anything to the head. id just be sure its flat and the surface is in good shape. if you want get a larger camshaft. but stock heads are well known for going to 400 even with stock cams.

dont mess with a block guard you dont need one.

keep tuning in mind. you will need larger injectors probably larger fuel pump as well as some way to tune your ecu. i will recommend neptune and moates demon.
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Old 10-10-2018, 07:09 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by drtalon123 View Post
There is lots of discussion on this forum about porting and shimming D series oil pumps. I won't get into specifics, as everyone seems to have their own pros and cons of doing certain things. You can search and find plenty of threads and come to your own conclusion, I won't bias you one way or the other <img src="https://www.d-series.org/forums/images/smilie/icon_smile.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Smile" class="inlineimg" />

You're braver than I am, I ended up spending $2500 on stuff before I even bought anything related to engine internals! (mostly because of my pickiness and custom nature). There are lots of folks on here who have pulled off budget builds for around your price range, I'm sure you will find a template to follow! Sorry I can't provide more specifics, I don't want to pull you down a path you don't want!
All the info you have given is top notch appreciate it &#x1f44d;&#x1f3ff;
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Old 10-10-2018, 07:10 AM   #9 (permalink)
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cant get more budget than vitara set up. look into p2p0 rods. they are custom length to keep your compression up. also they are good price. you may need to notch the block for them to fit. (possibly with eagles youd need to as well)

for 300- 400 hp you dont need to do anything to the head. id just be sure its flat and the surface is in good shape. if you want get a larger camshaft. but stock heads are well known for going to 400 even with stock cams.

dont mess with a block guard you dont need one.

keep tuning in mind. you will need larger injectors probably larger fuel pump as well as some way to tune your ecu. i will recommend neptune and moates demon.
And as far as tuning goes dyno tune is key for turbo set ups correct?
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Old 10-10-2018, 08:51 AM   #10 (permalink)
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And as far as tuning goes dyno tune is key for turbo set ups correct?

There are two ways you can go:

1. is socketting the ECU without using some sort of standalone-like controller like Hondata or Demon(Neptune). A tuner will use an emulator in place of the stock EEPROM chip, and run and tune the car through the emulator on the dyno. Once he/she is satisfied with the tune, they will burn the tune to a new EEPROM chip and plug it into the ECU. The ECU will run on the tune that was burned to the chip.

The downside to this is if you need a retune (for many variables like weather/temperature/altitude/etc.) you have to bring it back to the tuner to modify the tune and rewrite the program on to the chip. It is just annoying to have to always go back to the tuner for adjusting simple correction modifiers that can be freely tweaked/adjusted using Hondata or Neptune software with their appropriate emulation hardware.



2. is going with Hondata or Neptune(Demon emulator). Hondata sells their software and emulator chip as a package from the same company, whereas Moates.net builds the emulator chip called the Demon 2 and Neptune is the software written by HRTuning that controls the Demon 2. Xenocron and others sell the Neptune software package that comes with a Demon 2 chip. With either option, they are almost identical in capabilities and offer full support to end users. Some tuners are associated with a particular brand, and may only tune their brand out of loyalty but honestly if you know one you know the other. Most tuners who are unassociated with either have a ton of experience of using both.

This option is installed inside your ECU, and a USB cable is used to interface with the emulator chip through a laptop or capable device. A tuner will tune using this hardware/software, and simply "upload" changes made each time until the tune is complete. The benefit to this method is that changes can be made on the fly without having to open any component, AND you have the ability to learn/tweak things yourself as the hardware/software are owned by you. If your car is setup with a wideband A/F sensor/controller and it is connected via input to the emulator device, you can live trace A/F ratios against your fuel map and make the desired changes needed to keep A/F ratios in the sweet spot. Doing it this way allows someone to perform a "street tune" without ever stepping on a dyno.



The problem with doing a street tune is you have no idea how much power the engine is producing. So if you built your engine for 300HP and you "street tune" it and for some reason on 15 pounds of boost your outputting 380HP, without seeing this shown over time on the dyno output graph, you have no idea how much stress the engine is under without an output measurement. In this case, you may be running too much boost or your timing may be too far advanced and you might want to pull it in a bit to reach power level targets and be nicer to your chosen engine components. An engine operating over the power level it was designed for is just asking for failure.

Know this as well, most folks have a hard time understanding this concept right here: just because your buddy civic might run 15 pounds of boost and is making 280HP and you have the same engine does NOT mean you will make the same power level. There are too many variables, and boost level almost never associates with power level. I've seen engines that are built the same, and coupled with identical components. They both make 300HP but one runs 12PSI and the other runs 15PSI. Boost pressure NEVER exactly correlates with POWER output, even on identical setups. Always tune for a desired POWER, not BOOST level. Boost is irrelevant, it can be added/subtracted as needed to attain the desired power output.

A dyno run goes a long way to having a window into how the engine is operating under the tune created, so it can be tweaked to reach the intended output. A street tune can definitely be done as a temporary solution to get it to the dyno so you can see how your tune is actually affecting engine output.
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Old 10-10-2018, 09:22 PM   #11 (permalink)
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So I have little knowledge on turbos I know how they work and the general info no in depth info though.

I have a mini me in my car right now it’s b7/z6 mini me. I want to boost so I am going to get a junk yard short block for a z6 so I am a full z6 motor and I’m gonna build it while I daily my mini me. I want to do the pistons and rods I’m looking at the eagle set at the moment for 600$ my question is what am I gonna need to do as far as head work goes and what other mods for the lower block? I just had the head re valved new valve seals and guides put in .I’m hoping to put a t3/t4 turbo from eBay (kind of a budget build don’t hate on me for it) I would like to achieve 3-400 hp any info appreciated thanks
Pistons, rods, head studs and bearings will be a must and as someone mentioned before, a block guard wouldn’t hurt either(even though you should be good without one for that power goal). As for head work, the stock head should hold up alright BUT some of it comes down to how much power you can make with less effort (boost psi). For example, throw in a cam as well as some valves, springs and retainers, you might be able to make the same power with less psi which in turn, less strain on the engine. A nice port job wouldn’t hurt either. D-series engines are cheap to build in general but they could get pricey in the long run

Last edited by domoisback; 10-10-2018 at 09:27 PM.
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Old 10-11-2018, 09:04 AM   #12 (permalink)
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So I have little knowledge on turbos I know how they work and the general info no in depth info though.

I have a mini me in my car right now it’s b7/z6 mini me. I want to boost so I am going to get a junk yard short block for a z6 so I am a full z6 motor and I’m gonna build it while I daily my mini me. I want to do the pistons and rods I’m looking at the eagle set at the moment for 600$ my question is what am I gonna need to do as far as head work goes and what other mods for the lower block? I just had the head re valved new valve seals and guides put in .I’m hoping to put a t3/t4 turbo from eBay (kind of a budget build don’t hate on me for it) I would like to achieve 3-400 hp any info appreciated thanks
Pistons, rods, head studs and bearings will be a must and as someone mentioned before, a block guard wouldn’t hurt either(even though you should be good without one for that power goal). As for head work, the stock head should hold up alright BUT some of it comes down to how much power you can make with less effort (boost psi). For example, throw in a cam as well as some valves, springs and retainers, you might be able to make the same power with less psi which in turn, less strain on the engine. A nice port job wouldn’t hurt either. D-series engines are cheap to build in general but they could get pricey in the long run
So I’m looking at eagle rod and piston set with the crank. And for head studs arp is a reputable brand correct? And I have been told rod bolts would be a good thing as well?

As far as head work goes i might run NA for a month or two boost without the head work to ease into it and then get the whole head done with valve retainers and springs

Let me know your opinion if it were your build what you’d do
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Old 10-11-2018, 10:17 AM   #13 (permalink)
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And as far as tuning goes dyno tune is key for turbo set ups correct?

There are two ways you can go:

1. is socketting the ECU without using some sort of standalone-like controller like Hondata or Demon(Neptune). A tuner will use an emulator in place of the stock EEPROM chip, and run and tune the car through the emulator on the dyno. Once he/she is satisfied with the tune, they will burn the tune to a new EEPROM chip and plug it into the ECU. The ECU will run on the tune that was burned to the chip.

The downside to this is if you need a retune (for many variables like weather/temperature/altitude/etc.) you have to bring it back to the tuner to modify the tune and rewrite the program on to the chip. It is just annoying to have to always go back to the tuner for adjusting simple correction modifiers that can be freely tweaked/adjusted using Hondata or Neptune software with their appropriate emulation hardware.



2. is going with Hondata or Neptune(Demon emulator). Hondata sells their software and emulator chip as a package from the same company, whereas Moates.net builds the emulator chip called the Demon 2 and Neptune is the software written by HRTuning that controls the Demon 2. Xenocron and others sell the Neptune software package that comes with a Demon 2 chip. With either option, they are almost identical in capabilities and offer full support to end users. Some tuners are associated with a particular brand, and may only tune their brand out of loyalty but honestly if you know one you know the other. Most tuners who are unassociated with either have a ton of experience of using both.

This option is installed inside your ECU, and a USB cable is used to interface with the emulator chip through a laptop or capable device. A tuner will tune using this hardware/software, and simply "upload" changes made each time until the tune is complete. The benefit to this method is that changes can be made on the fly without having to open any component, AND you have the ability to learn/tweak things yourself as the hardware/software are owned by you. If your car is setup with a wideband A/F sensor/controller and it is connected via input to the emulator device, you can live trace A/F ratios against your fuel map and make the desired changes needed to keep A/F ratios in the sweet spot. Doing it this way allows someone to perform a "street tune" without ever stepping on a dyno.



The problem with doing a street tune is you have no idea how much power the engine is producing. So if you built your engine for 300HP and you "street tune" it and for some reason on 15 pounds of boost your outputting 380HP, without seeing this shown over time on the dyno output graph, you have no idea how much stress the engine is under without an output measurement. In this case, you may be running too much boost or your timing may be too far advanced and you might want to pull it in a bit to reach power level targets and be nicer to your chosen engine components. An engine operating over the power level it was designed for is just asking for failure.

Know this as well, most folks have a hard time understanding this concept right here: just because your buddy civic might run 15 pounds of boost and is making 280HP and you have the same engine does NOT mean you will make the same power level. There are too many variables, and boost level almost never associates with power level. I've seen engines that are built the same, and coupled with identical components. They both make 300HP but one runs 12PSI and the other runs 15PSI. Boost pressure NEVER exactly correlates with POWER output, even on identical setups. Always tune for a desired POWER, not BOOST level. Boost is irrelevant, it can be added/subtracted as needed to attain the desired power output.

A dyno run goes a long way to having a window into how the engine is operating under the tune created, so it can be tweaked to reach the intended output. A street tune can definitely be done as a temporary solution to get it to the dyno so you can see how your tune is actually affecting engine output.
So my next question is what rods can I get that are essentially plug and play I see vitara is 75mm but rod length is different is is that going to require any special work on the block?
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Old 10-12-2018, 05:02 AM   #14 (permalink)
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likely none.

its not always the rod that causes issue. some times its the ARP rod bolts.

notching a block is not difficult all you need is a dremel or die grinder or something.

you can use stock length rods with vitaras you compression will just be really low. P2P0 rods are great and cheap.
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Old 10-13-2018, 07:58 PM   #15 (permalink)
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I just want to throw in here, skip the blockguard if you are thinking about it. Unless you feel like sending the block in to get an alignment bore.

a cheaper and stronger solution is to find a can of devcon aluminum paste/epoxy, and do the sugar method.

I believe SP Tuning on tube is who did the DIY on this method on his red integra budget boost build.
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Old 10-14-2018, 04:58 PM   #16 (permalink)
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What even is a blockguard?
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Old 10-15-2018, 05:18 AM   #17 (permalink)
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its a metal band that does inside the water jacket between the cylinders and the block.

they are usually welded in there used to be lots of talk about them causing heating issues due to water not getting to the top of the cylinders right where combustion happens. not sure if this is still a concern people have.

other options ive heard of are the CSS. you have to send them your block but they machine a spot in the block and press fit the metal band in there. i always felt this was a better option than welding it in.

either way there is no need for one at all untill you get way up in the power rangers. I certainly wouldnt bother with one unless i was over 400hp.
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Old 10-17-2018, 07:39 PM   #18 (permalink)
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You could spend just just a few more dollars and save down the line on some annoying things that may eventually annoy you, while making it strong. Vitara 75.5mm pistons with the Speedfactory h-beam custom rods and you can save the hassle of notching block and girdle. You will also avoid that slapping noise until warm up time. Hopefully your sending your block to be cleaned and measured so boring and honing it is just a few more dollars for peace of mind and strength.
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