Problem cranking and no fuel after head gasket, timing belt and waterpump replacement - D-series.org

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Old 06-08-2018, 11:45 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Problem cranking and no fuel after head gasket, timing belt and waterpump replacement

Heres the back story. I bought a 1989 Honda Civic Hatchback DX D15B2 from my friend recently. It was sitting in his garage for 5 years.
He bought the car and it ran fine. Then it overheated. He replaced the radiator and thermostat. Car still overheated. He started to remove the hoses from the head and the intake manifold so he could replace the head gasket but then stopped because he got busy with work.
I picked up the car and replaced the head gasket, timing belt and the waterpump.
I proceed to start the car and the starter barely cranks. Sounds like a dead battery but the battery is new. The positive wire was corroded. I replaced the wire and proceed to crank again. Same thing, barely cranks. I bypass the neg cable to the battery and go straight to the trans mount. Barely cranks.
Next I put 12 volts to the signal on the starter and it cranks like normal but it wont turn over.
The signal wire to the starter isn't putting out enough volts.
I'm looking for a missing ground but I can find one. There isn't a ground hook up that goes to the thermostat like other hondas I've seen.
I have to be missing something simple because it did start before. I checked the fuel filter and its empty.
So currently no fuel and weak signal to starter. I just ordered a FSM and Electrical troubleshooting manual but it won't be here til next week.
Does anyone have any ideas? I'm about to check the fuel pump to make sure it works but I'm pretty sure it will. I'll post some pics shortly with what I'm working with. TIA.
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Old 06-08-2018, 11:57 AM   #2 (permalink)
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I forgot to mention I did try changing the main relay with a good one and checked all the fuses.
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Old 06-08-2018, 12:04 PM   #3 (permalink)
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You should have a ground on the thermostat from the engine harness without it the ecu won’t get grounded and work. One reason no fuel in filter cause the fuel pump isn’t turning on. The ecu controls the fuel pump,no ground or power to ecu no pump.
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Old 06-08-2018, 02:11 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by 2jzdreamin View Post
You should have a ground on the thermostat from the engine harness without it the ecu wonít get grounded and work. One reason no fuel in filter cause the fuel pump isnít turning on. The ecu controls the fuel pump,no ground or power to ecu no pump.
I understand what youre saying. I've looked all over and I can't find any wires that aren't hooked up that would be the ground. I read somewhere saying that there isn't a ground for the thermostat on my model car. They could be wrong. Is there way I can ground directly to the ecu?
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Old 06-08-2018, 02:44 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Ever harness I’ve seen has a thermostat ground wire. It’s a ring terminal with about 4 wires in it. Maybe the ring terminal broke off and the wires are loose or there hinding where your not seeing it.

The thermostat ground not only grounds the ecu but other things to like main relay. So adding ground to ecu won’t do much.
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Old 06-08-2018, 05:20 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by 2jzdreamin View Post
Ever harness Iíve seen has a thermostat ground wire. Itís a ring terminal with about 4 wires in it. Maybe the ring terminal broke off and the wires are loose or there hinding where your not seeing it.

The thermostat ground not only grounds the ecu but other things to like main relay. So adding ground to ecu wonít do much.
After taking a closer look I did find the ground to the thermostat. 4 wires on 2 ring terminals. cleaned up all the grounds, closed up the gap on the signal connector and removed some alarm crap from the wiring. The starter is cranking normal but no fuel.
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Old 06-09-2018, 08:40 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Todays update. I checked for power to pin 7 (fuel pump) at the main relay. There's power going to pin 7 when cranking. I tried jumping power from 1 to 7 but got a spark. Not good so possibly a short so I didn't try again. My next move is trying to find out which wires at the pigtail under the seat go to the fuel pump. There are 4 wires. I know 2 are for the sending unit. Im trying to search google to find the correct color wires so I can test the pump from there. Anyone know by chance?
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Old 06-09-2018, 09:30 AM   #8 (permalink)
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probe the fuel pump fuse for voltage.

Then remove rear seat bottom and probe the fuel pump harness for power and ground to see if its nearly identical.

Attempt to measure voltage from the fuel pump ground wire. If you get anything, its shorted.
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Old 06-09-2018, 09:43 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattliston View Post
probe the fuel pump fuse for voltage.

Then remove rear seat bottom and probe the fuel pump harness for power and ground to see if its nearly identical.

Attempt to measure voltage from the fuel pump ground wire. If you get anything, its shorted.
Thank you,but before I read your post I ended up pulling the seat out and unwrapping the wire. The yellow/black wire goes to the pump. I used my power probe and supplied power and ground to the pump. Pump didnt make any noise. Time to order pump.
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Old 06-09-2018, 12:13 PM   #10 (permalink)
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pop the fuel pump out, get it a few love taps like a stuck starter, and see if it works again.

If it does, at least you can verify that is your only issue.
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Old 06-16-2018, 12:58 PM   #11 (permalink)
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pop the fuel pump out, get it a few love taps like a stuck starter, and see if it works again.

If it does, at least you can verify that is your only issue.
I pulled the pump out and the motor was seized. You can feel the motor try to turn but it was done. It lasted 194k.

Installed the new pump, sock and filter. Car started up. Now I have a high idle that wont go away. The butterfly can be closed a tad bit that will lower the idle but it doesn't hold so now to search for a solution. fsm wont be here til tuesday.

I am happy that the car did start after sitting 5 years, actually 6 since the car hasnt been tagged since 2012.
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Old 06-16-2018, 01:37 PM   #12 (permalink)
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glad it was the pump and not some hard to track demon hiding in the woodwork.

high idle?

I would go to the throttlebody, look on top, approx 11 oclock as if you are staring into throttle, and find the dile screw. remove it completely.

take some brake cleaner, spray it directly where the idle screw came out.

Now check out the diel screw. is the tip damaged? is the O-ring in good condition? all good? cool.

pop it back in, tighten all teh way down til it bottoms out, then back it off 2 full turns.

Unplug the distributor, crank the car over for 10 seconds or so to clear out the brake cleaner that will seep down to the valves. plug distributor back in, fire the car up.

let it warm up completely. turn off, key out, go inside the car on passenger side, remove kick panel, find 2 wire service plug. Will NOT be plugged into anything, may have a green or gray cover. use a paperclip, short those two pins together.

Start car up, fuck with idle screw until it stays around 700 to 750 rpms. If you have to bottom idle screw out, or undo turns 4-5 circles, you have a vacuum leak or a bad idle valve to look at.

EDIT ** IDLE not diel lol. tired and hot from the heat today
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Old 06-17-2018, 06:36 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattliston View Post
glad it was the pump and not some hard to track demon hiding in the woodwork.

high idle?

I would go to the throttlebody, look on top, approx 11 oclock as if you are staring into throttle, and find the dile screw. remove it completely.

take some brake cleaner, spray it directly where the idle screw came out.

Now check out the diel screw. is the tip damaged? is the O-ring in good condition? all good? cool.

pop it back in, tighten all teh way down til it bottoms out, then back it off 2 full turns.

Unplug the distributor, crank the car over for 10 seconds or so to clear out the brake cleaner that will seep down to the valves. plug distributor back in, fire the car up.

let it warm up completely. turn off, key out, go inside the car on passenger side, remove kick panel, find 2 wire service plug. Will NOT be plugged into anything, may have a green or gray cover. use a paperclip, short those two pins together.

Start car up, fuck with idle screw until it stays around 700 to 750 rpms. If you have to bottom idle screw out, or undo turns 4-5 circles, you have a vacuum leak or a bad idle valve to look at.

EDIT ** IDLE not diel lol. tired and hot from the heat today
Thank you for the very descriptive write up! I don't want to adjust anything just yet til i've exhausted all other steps. I sprayed around all the hoses with brake clean and the idle stayed the same however when I first started the car (engine cold) and pinched the hose from the brake booster to the tb the idle did drop some but later when the engine was warm the idle wouldn't drop anymore when I pinched the hose.

I've searched the interwebs and found an abundance of information. None that have the exact problem but offer a lot of advise.
make sure no air pockets, make sure timing is correct, ect is working properly ect. ect.
I'm going to recheck everything today and install a cluster with a rpm gauge so I know what rpms I'm running. I'd hate to make another idle thread if I can't solve it myself BUT it does help to throw ideas around with other people to get your brain working.
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Old 06-17-2018, 08:48 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Actually its the hose from the iacv to the top of the tb cover.
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