May be a dumb question. Why other motors make so much more whp on a stock block? - D-series.org

Go Back   D-series.org » Motor Mayhem & Suspension Satisfaction » Forced Induction

D-Series.org is the premier Honda All Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-03-2008, 05:41 PM   #1 (permalink)
 
iTrader: (0)
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 27
Rep Power: 0 th3slowkid is nobody
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Default May be a dumb question. Why other motors make so much more whp on a stock block?

than a d series? why is it that a b16 can make well over 300+whp on stock internals while a d16 can only make 200~250ish on stock internals? are the rods that much stronger in a b16 than a d16? i just dont get that.. the same w/ like k-series.. they can go like 600hp .. and same for s2000 motors .. not sure what the name is .. and also h22s .. just wondering what it is that makes them less liekly to blow up
th3slowkid is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 11-03-2008, 06:16 PM   #2 (permalink)
D-series soldier
 
BrandonPettit's Avatar
 
iTrader: (6)
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Spartanburg, Sc
Posts: 632
Rep Power: 14 BrandonPettit It's a JDM Star Bitches....
BrandonPettit It's a JDM Star Bitches....BrandonPettit It's a JDM Star Bitches....BrandonPettit It's a JDM Star Bitches....BrandonPettit It's a JDM Star Bitches....
iTrader Score: 6 reviews
Default

Displacement...they has it!
__________________
Quote:
Welcom to D-series.org. We have wealth of knowledge here including a bullet proof plan in case of a zombie outbreak. Enjoy your stay.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
BrandonPettit is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-03-2008, 06:28 PM   #3 (permalink)
D-series soldier
 
srslygrowup's Avatar
 
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Hell, CA
Posts: 594
Rep Power: 12 srslygrowup is a name known to allsrslygrowup is a name known to allsrslygrowup is a name known to allsrslygrowup is a name known to allsrslygrowup is a name known to allsrslygrowup is a name known to allsrslygrowup is a name known to allsrslygrowup is a name known to all
iTrader Score: 4 reviews
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrandonPettit View Post
Displacement...they has it!
What the fuck are you talking about? What about the B16? 1.6 liters is 1.6 liters. It's the exact same displacement. The reason that certain motors can make more power is the quality and durability of the components that make up the engine.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


It's not that I'm lazy, it's just that I don't care.
srslygrowup is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-03-2008, 06:49 PM   #4 (permalink)
D-series soldier
 
EKboostedY8's Avatar
 
iTrader: (20)
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Tolland, Ct
Posts: 938
Rep Power: 16 EKboostedY8 is hot as a volcano
EKboostedY8 is hot as a volcanoEKboostedY8 is hot as a volcanoEKboostedY8 is hot as a volcanoEKboostedY8 is hot as a volcanoEKboostedY8 is hot as a volcanoEKboostedY8 is hot as a volcanoEKboostedY8 is hot as a volcanoEKboostedY8 is hot as a volcanoEKboostedY8 is hot as a volcanoEKboostedY8 is hot as a volcanoEKboostedY8 is hot as a volcanoEKboostedY8 is hot as a volcanoEKboostedY8 is hot as a volcano
iTrader Score: 20 reviews
Default

x2 on displacement. plus 2cams>1cam. You can blow up anything. All in the tune. The other motors are built tougher. Plus say a d16y8 starts with 128hp at the flywheel. A b18c has almost 60hp more to start with. So for a guy with B series to hit the 300whp mark is like a d16y8 hitting the 230+whp mark. Thats been done time and time again. Basic rule of thumb once you hit double your stock output (flywheel hp) expect some issues. As for 600hp on a stock k series id like to see that. You can do some crazy things with a k20 but god damn 600hp. Thats alot of stress for a stock engine with such high comp to begin with. Just my 2 cents.
EKboostedY8 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-03-2008, 07:13 PM   #5 (permalink)
D-series G0D
 
boostfreak0885's Avatar
 
iTrader: (13)
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: delaware
Posts: 6,966
Rep Power: 20 boostfreak0885 is hot as a volcanoboostfreak0885 is hot as a volcano
boostfreak0885 is hot as a volcanoboostfreak0885 is hot as a volcanoboostfreak0885 is hot as a volcanoboostfreak0885 is hot as a volcanoboostfreak0885 is hot as a volcanoboostfreak0885 is hot as a volcanoboostfreak0885 is hot as a volcanoboostfreak0885 is hot as a volcanoboostfreak0885 is hot as a volcanoboostfreak0885 is hot as a volcanoboostfreak0885 is hot as a volcanoboostfreak0885 is hot as a volcano
iTrader Score: 13 reviews
Send a message via AIM to boostfreak0885
Default

the k20 might hit 600hp one time before the rods start coming through the block
__________________
my new and improved build... check it out

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


best time so far
11.201 at 128mph with a 1.79 60 foot.. damn i need traction, best trap speed is 129mph. 26psi h1c

NEW best 60' 1.56!!!
boostfreak0885 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-03-2008, 07:18 PM   #6 (permalink)
Black Dynamite
 
Clutchmaster's Avatar
 
iTrader: (29)
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Albuquerque NM
Posts: 5,880
Rep Power: 23 Clutchmaster is the fucking MAN!!!!Clutchmaster is the fucking MAN!!!!Clutchmaster is the fucking MAN!!!!
Clutchmaster is the fucking MAN!!!!Clutchmaster is the fucking MAN!!!!Clutchmaster is the fucking MAN!!!!Clutchmaster is the fucking MAN!!!!Clutchmaster is the fucking MAN!!!!Clutchmaster is the fucking MAN!!!!Clutchmaster is the fucking MAN!!!!Clutchmaster is the fucking MAN!!!!
iTrader Score: 29 reviews
Send a message via AIM to Clutchmaster
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by boostfreak0885 View Post
the k20 might hit 600hp one time before the rods start coming through the block
fo sho my K20z3 already has the compression ratio of a Z06 with half the cylinders. I agree with some post above. Quality of parts is what makes the difference. Same reason you buy forged rods and piston to push a D or any other model engine for that matter way beyond it's intended limits. You want more power...need stronger components. Some just come from the factory with better shit in them than others
Clutchmaster is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-03-2008, 07:22 PM   #7 (permalink)
D-Series cadet
 
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: toronto
Posts: 455
Rep Power: 12 dan15b smells like Boratdan15b smells like Boratdan15b smells like Boratdan15b smells like Boratdan15b smells like Boratdan15b smells like Borat
iTrader Score: 4 reviews
Default

d16 rod/stroke ratio: 1.52-1.62
b16 rod/stroke ratio: 1.62-1.74
k series rod/stroke ratio: 2

don't quote me on that, but the figures are close enough to accurate. the dohc parts are more resilient and have less resistance to work against so it seems logical that they have the capacity to put more power to the wheels and less power overcoming internal resistance like the D. the K valvetrain is also superior to the B, making up for the additional valvetrain resistance that the B has compared to the D. iirc...
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by molecule°
most people might think i'm avoiding the real world...but actually i'm attacking it directly through all my senses and ability at logic
dan15b is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-03-2008, 07:55 PM   #8 (permalink)
 
iTrader: (0)
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 27
Rep Power: 0 th3slowkid is nobody
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Default

alrite .. anyway .. theres a stock k series that made like 600hps .. i just saw it on turbo d16 i think .. and i remember seeing a video of some guy dumping 42 psi into his stock k series .. and then it went boom.

but back to the hp thing .. displacement might have something to do with it .. but what i'm saying is why is it that d16 rods will break after like 250hp ... but b16's will handle 250 with ease... is it the internals? are they much stronger on teh b?

heres the thread i'm talking about
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread...&cmd=addnotify

Last edited by th3slowkid; 11-03-2008 at 07:58 PM.
th3slowkid is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-03-2008, 07:57 PM   #9 (permalink)
D-series PIMP
 
christbone20's Avatar
 
iTrader: (14)
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,272
Rep Power: 16 christbone20 is a name known to allchristbone20 is a name known to allchristbone20 is a name known to allchristbone20 is a name known to allchristbone20 is a name known to allchristbone20 is a name known to allchristbone20 is a name known to allchristbone20 is a name known to allchristbone20 is a name known to allchristbone20 is a name known to all
iTrader Score: 14 reviews
Default

dont forget about compression.
h22s have a much higher compression ratio compared to most d's and b's.

i had a boosted h22, just added a thicker headgasket to lower the compression down and only street tuned it and worked fine.

the higher compression you have, the harder to tune properly.

the weakest link with the d series is its rods.
__________________
60-1 stock h22a - [email protected] on street tires
Frontmount DBB 6262 Sleeved D16 Drag Car - numbers very soon!
christbone20 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-03-2008, 08:05 PM   #10 (permalink)
D-series soldier
 
EKboostedY8's Avatar
 
iTrader: (20)
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Tolland, Ct
Posts: 938
Rep Power: 16 EKboostedY8 is hot as a volcano
EKboostedY8 is hot as a volcanoEKboostedY8 is hot as a volcanoEKboostedY8 is hot as a volcanoEKboostedY8 is hot as a volcanoEKboostedY8 is hot as a volcanoEKboostedY8 is hot as a volcanoEKboostedY8 is hot as a volcanoEKboostedY8 is hot as a volcanoEKboostedY8 is hot as a volcanoEKboostedY8 is hot as a volcanoEKboostedY8 is hot as a volcanoEKboostedY8 is hot as a volcanoEKboostedY8 is hot as a volcano
iTrader Score: 20 reviews
Default

I should have worded my post differently. The parts are stronger. And the engines are alot different. Read this: Its a great write up with soooo much info

http://www.hondatuningmagazine.com/t...ine/index.html
EKboostedY8 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-03-2008, 08:07 PM   #11 (permalink)
 
iTrader: (0)
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 149
Rep Power: 0 sohc95 is nobody
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Default

plsn and simple.
the d series is a smaller motor from the factory meant to make less power.
a b or h series make considerably more power stock. so there internals have to be built to handle the everyday tug and stress of more power. a d series(made for its gas mileage not power) parts are thin and light.
there what you need and nothing more. really. less weight of rotating assembly better gas mileage...(i beleive)
basically tho.
fuck all the others.
D's ftw. any other letter and your just followin tha crowd.
sohc95 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-03-2008, 08:13 PM   #12 (permalink)
 
iTrader: (0)
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 27
Rep Power: 0 th3slowkid is nobody
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Default

alrite .. yea its making more sense ..

i was thinking of maybe goin b20 style just to get a little extra low end
th3slowkid is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-03-2008, 08:28 PM   #13 (permalink)
D-series soldier
 
EKboostedY8's Avatar
 
iTrader: (20)
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Tolland, Ct
Posts: 938
Rep Power: 16 EKboostedY8 is hot as a volcano
EKboostedY8 is hot as a volcanoEKboostedY8 is hot as a volcanoEKboostedY8 is hot as a volcanoEKboostedY8 is hot as a volcanoEKboostedY8 is hot as a volcanoEKboostedY8 is hot as a volcanoEKboostedY8 is hot as a volcanoEKboostedY8 is hot as a volcanoEKboostedY8 is hot as a volcanoEKboostedY8 is hot as a volcanoEKboostedY8 is hot as a volcanoEKboostedY8 is hot as a volcanoEKboostedY8 is hot as a volcano
iTrader Score: 20 reviews
Default

I have a couple "how to build honda horsepower books". They are great, tons of information. These were my bible when I first considered a honda. They cover quite a bit on the d-series and different dynos with parts. They explain every aspect of modifying your car to make more power.


I think a paid $25 for one at borders and $20 for another more technical one

http://www.amazon.com/How-Build-Hond...5776179&sr=1-4

Last edited by EKboostedY8; 11-04-2008 at 08:23 PM.
EKboostedY8 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-03-2008, 08:34 PM   #14 (permalink)
 
iTrader: (0)
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 27
Rep Power: 0 th3slowkid is nobody
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Default

yea i might take a look at it .. i have a turbo d16 right now .. i'm making 178whp at 6 psi. i'm just thikning about all the wonderful things i'm gunna do when i graduate college.. and a turbo d16 is nice .. but i'm still gunna consider other things .. i've never had a b sereis .. and a built b20 just seems fun
th3slowkid is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-03-2008, 09:08 PM   #15 (permalink)
Well?
 
1.5Slowmatic's Avatar
 
iTrader: (38)
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Sykesville, MD
Posts: 10,814
Rep Power: 33 1.5Slowmatic is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !1.5Slowmatic is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !1.5Slowmatic is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !
1.5Slowmatic is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !1.5Slowmatic is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !1.5Slowmatic is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !1.5Slowmatic is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !1.5Slowmatic is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !1.5Slowmatic is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !1.5Slowmatic is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !1.5Slowmatic is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !1.5Slowmatic is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !1.5Slowmatic is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !1.5Slowmatic is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !1.5Slowmatic is on a level you can only DREAM about! ! !
iTrader Score: 38 reviews
Send a message via AIM to 1.5Slowmatic
Default

the rods are stronger, thats why. why do you think people use machined LS rods for D-series motors. Plus the 2 cams to 1 cam and the heads flow alot better than b heads. The d is simply a budget oriented motor, its not really a performace motor, although it can be pretty wicked when tuned right
__________________
Quote:
lol at everyone talking shit about Fords .. they must of never owned a chevy
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Quote:
Nate is seriously one of those angry white men you read about all the time.


Headlight Harness DIY Upgrade
DIY Ice Box Intake
Resident D-series.org metalhead Alliance member #7
1.5Slowmatic is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-03-2008, 09:26 PM   #16 (permalink)
D-series PIMP
 
DirtyDseriesWOOT's Avatar
 
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Alexandria,LA
Posts: 1,376
Rep Power: 13 DirtyDseriesWOOT is approaching greatnessDirtyDseriesWOOT is approaching greatnessDirtyDseriesWOOT is approaching greatnessDirtyDseriesWOOT is approaching greatnessDirtyDseriesWOOT is approaching greatnessDirtyDseriesWOOT is approaching greatnessDirtyDseriesWOOT is approaching greatnessDirtyDseriesWOOT is approaching greatnessDirtyDseriesWOOT is approaching greatnessDirtyDseriesWOOT is approaching greatnessDirtyDseriesWOOT is approaching greatnessDirtyDseriesWOOT is approaching greatness
iTrader Score: 4 reviews
Send a message via AIM to DirtyDseriesWOOT
Default

rods in a d are like tooth picks
__________________
97 civic dx coupe Black !!
[email protected] 403whp 326ftlbs
bitch its gonna be way faster by JAN 0 9

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


94 RHD samba green -SOLD!


uhh rep me or somthing!

Professional FireFighter

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
DirtyDseriesWOOT is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-03-2008, 10:15 PM   #17 (permalink)
wise in the ways of the D
 
Koots's Avatar
 
iTrader: (0)
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia
Posts: 1,784
Rep Power: 15 Koots is almost there....
Koots is almost there....Koots is almost there....Koots is almost there....Koots is almost there....Koots is almost there....Koots is almost there....Koots is almost there....Koots is almost there....
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1.5Slowmatic View Post
the rods are stronger, thats why. why do you think people use machined LS rods for D-series motors. Plus the 2 cams to 1 cam and the heads flow alot better than b heads. The d is simply a budget oriented motor, its not really a performace motor, although it can be pretty wicked when tuned right
Exactly, the D-series is the economy motor, it was never meant to push the 200hp barrier although the crank is a stout piece. The B-series and the K are meant to be more performance oriented. Plus the R/S ratio as mentioned before.

doesn't mean the D is bad though, just a little underbuilt in some aspects. nothing a good set of rods can't fix.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


SOLD
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


...Gone back to the Chevy world again, but i'll be back behind the seat of a Honda again someday
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Koots is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-03-2008, 10:17 PM   #18 (permalink)
D-Series cadet
 
es01civy's Avatar
 
iTrader: (0)
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Antelope Valley, California
Posts: 310
Rep Power: 12 es01civy is nobody
iTrader Score: 0 reviews
Default

check out cheesefrog they had a k20 forgot the horsepower but they accidentally hit overboost all stock internals
es01civy is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-04-2008, 04:17 AM   #19 (permalink)
Friend of the D
 
Aragorn's Avatar
 
iTrader: (14)
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: In the woods of, NH
Posts: 3,069
Rep Power: 26 Aragorn Still a JDM Star....Aragorn Still a JDM Star....
Aragorn Still a JDM Star....Aragorn Still a JDM Star....Aragorn Still a JDM Star....Aragorn Still a JDM Star....
iTrader Score: 14 reviews
Default

Not only is the d-series an economy motor for the most part, it's also the oldest design. The B-series used what Honda had learned previously and applied it to a more performance oriented motor. The K-series is pretty much the same, although Honda even threw away some of their own work when the changed to rotation. I'll bet that when the new ?-series comes out, it will be a stronger motor than the K-series and that's actually a very cool thought.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Aragorn is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-04-2008, 04:33 AM   #20 (permalink)
All powerful D-series member
 
scottdh20's Avatar
 
iTrader: (14)
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: g-rap aka grand rapids, mi
Posts: 4,003
Rep Power: 23 scottdh20 is the fucking MAN!!!!scottdh20 is the fucking MAN!!!!scottdh20 is the fucking MAN!!!!scottdh20 is the fucking MAN!!!!
scottdh20 is the fucking MAN!!!!scottdh20 is the fucking MAN!!!!scottdh20 is the fucking MAN!!!!scottdh20 is the fucking MAN!!!!scottdh20 is the fucking MAN!!!!scottdh20 is the fucking MAN!!!!scottdh20 is the fucking MAN!!!!scottdh20 is the fucking MAN!!!!scottdh20 is the fucking MAN!!!!scottdh20 is the fucking MAN!!!!scottdh20 is the fucking MAN!!!!
iTrader Score: 14 reviews
Default

i didnt feel like reading threw all post but its pretty simple the civic was an economy car ment for good gas milage even the si was an econmy car with a bit more of a sporty feel to it. and integra was a sports car ment to be quick and sporty thus the reason they put biger motors in them. they also put stronger internals in them. look at a d16 and a b16 rod next to each other the b-series will be noticably beefier.
__________________
03 s2000 lapping machine
95 hatch, hx35 & oodles of boost -sold
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

How to hook up turbo coolant lines
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

BUILD THREAD
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Everyone has a little farmyard in them

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
scottdh20 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the D-series.org forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


iconAll times are GMT -8. The time now is 09:10 AM. | Welcome to Forum, please register to access all of our features.