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Old 12-16-2018, 05:38 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Preferred method to CCW rotate an Eaton M62

Hi.

I have searched...
and searched... and searched some more.

A few members here have done this. I don't know if they are still active or not.

I want to use a Mercedes c230 Eaton M62 charger with the clutch pulley . The only thing holding me up is switching to the ccw rotation.

Can i simply flip the rotor pack & snout around, drilling out the top holes a little bit? Done?

Some people say I need to pull the rotors off the shafts, flip the shafts, and reinstall the rotors. This is to accommodate the rotors having 'worn' themselves to that side of the case. Is this accurate?

Last pic is for attention. it sure got mine.
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Old 12-16-2018, 07:09 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Rabid is the only person I know of who can really answer your question because he’s done it.

For what it’s worth, the supercharger case and the rotors should never “wear” themselves together. There should be no contact between the rotors and the bores of the case.
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Old 12-16-2018, 08:50 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paterico View Post
Rabid is the only person I know of who can really answer your question because he’s done it.

For what it’s worth, the supercharger case and the rotors should never “wear” themselves together. There should be no contact between the rotors and the bores of the case.
I am really hoping that Rabid shows up and chimes in with the info.

I didn't think there would be any 'wearing' or 'pairing' to the bores of the case. I read it somewhere, and it stuck in the back of my head like bad science.
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Old 12-16-2018, 10:01 PM   #4 (permalink)
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It's an M63 Eaton.

It loses about 10% pumping eff. spinning it backwards. Even the Eaton engineers didn't believe it, but they tested it and that was the numbers we were given.

Eaton company used to have a free day at Milan Dragway, I thing it was the first Tuesday after summer started.
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Old 12-16-2018, 10:02 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Oh yeah, then cheap turbo setups came along and the whole idea ditched.
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Old 12-17-2018, 07:42 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Cheap turbo's and abundant tuning options sure did change the game for everyone.

There are still a few good reasons to try this, over a small turbo setup. I also like the idea of using an n/a tune and sc tune, using my oem a/c switch (a/c is long gone) to switch maps and turn the charger on/off. *press button* *light comes on* c'mon! Below 2krpm of course, I know the clutch doesn't like to be turned on/off at higher speeds. Then there is the part about the sc sounding awesome. Sometimes I drive long distances and it would be great to be able to kill the sound and save fuel. Edit: it won't even save fuel. it might even use more because of the restrictive intake.

Last edited by EFing8; 12-17-2018 at 12:36 PM. Reason: i'm a dummy
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Old 12-17-2018, 10:40 AM   #7 (permalink)
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This is an example of one that has just had the rotor pack flipped around inside the case.

Normally the blades would be oriented like the green line, not the red line. To match up with the outlet port angles.

Is this how people are using it and only getting 10% loss?

cheers.
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Old 12-17-2018, 12:16 PM   #8 (permalink)
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0:58 these guys are pulling air IN the outlet and OUT the inlet. Is this the way people are doing it??
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Old 12-17-2018, 12:30 PM   #9 (permalink)
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There's no reason why you should get worse fuel economy with a supercharger. I didn't notice any difference in my highway fuel economy when i put mine on. Just make sure it's tuned well and run a wideband sensor.

Also after driving it i reckon you'll think the switch idea is dumb and you'll just leave it on.
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Old 12-17-2018, 12:34 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Ya, you are right, good point. Now about this ccw rotation that has me perplexed. I'm seeing a lot of Russians using them, with what appears to be, good success. But I don't speak Sputnik and can't understand the videos.

This new 3rd method of pulling air in the outlet seems insane to me, but they are doing it!
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Old 12-17-2018, 01:05 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EFing8 View Post
Ya, you are right, good point. Now about this ccw rotation that has me perplexed. I'm seeing a lot of Russians using them, with what appears to be, good success. But I don't speak Sputnik and can't understand the videos.

This new 3rd method of pulling air in the outlet seems insane to me, but they are doing it!
See my notes above. "TimtheStick" was the originator of the idea on his del Sol.

But the issue is the SC is mounted so far forward it breaks the bolts off. My design (never finished) tucks the SC against the block but a custom header is needed.



Search AKSC on here.

Also note you need a way bigger crank pulley to spin the SC to even get near it's max speed.
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Old 12-17-2018, 01:19 PM   #12 (permalink)
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I must have miss understood this from the beginning.

You are telling me, that sucking air IN the outlet
and pushing it OUT the inlet, only causes a 10% loss in efficiency?

I did a search for 'TimtheStick' but not a lot comes up. I believe they sell a header on ebay now that would achieve what you were after.
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Old 12-17-2018, 04:08 PM   #13 (permalink)
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You can just flip the bearing housing and snout on the rotor housing. You'll have to oblong the holes in the center because they are spaced a little different to prevent this. I did everything the hard way by taking it all apart to replace seals and bearings. Do not do that unless you really want a headache.

Quote:
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You are telling me, that sucking air IN the outlet
and pushing it OUT the inlet, only causes a 10% loss in efficiency?
Yes, that's what they are saying.
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Old 12-17-2018, 04:36 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Wow. I am as dumbfounded as those Eaton employees then. I would never had guessed that would work. A testament to how little I understand about how these things work.
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Old 12-17-2018, 07:15 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EFing8 View Post
I must have miss understood this from the beginning.

You are telling me, that sucking air IN the outlet
and pushing it OUT the inlet, only causes a 10% loss in efficiency?

I did a search for 'TimtheStick' but not a lot comes up. I believe they sell a header on ebay now that would achieve what you were after.
Likely the same one they were selling 15+ years ago....
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Quote:
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Old 12-18-2018, 09:22 AM   #16 (permalink)
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So yeah, if you’re spinning it backwards and then using the inlet as an outlet and the outlet as an inlet...I can see how that would work.

Could be helpful if you’re locating the supercharger ok the front on the block but worthless if you’re trying to incorporate the supercharger into an intake manifold.
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Old 12-18-2018, 11:33 PM   #17 (permalink)
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TimtheStick on here (I thought that was his username) did the design with hanging the Eaton WAY out and keeping the OEM D15B7 exhaust manifold. Except the bolts kept breaking. My design above used crank main bolts that were laying in a box, was a pain to fine nuts for them.

We also had a Rotrex from a BMW to play with, way before Oscar Jackson started using them on the K and L motors.

But I will say this, a M63 being spun backwards on a D15B7, the NOISE is makes, seems like something is sucking your soul away.

Gutted D15B7 del Sol, on my 20x8x14 sicks at 13 PSI, using a Holley Line-Loc on the clutch for cutting a near perfect RT, went 14.00...on stock injectors using early version of Hondata.

I have ALL the videos on a HDD backed up....somewhere.

Oh yeah, WAY BACK.....

https://www.benzworld.org/forums/r17...leys-111s.html

The GSR M90 del Sol (Scho's) vs. my D16Z6 EG HB on 75 shot of ZEX, Scho gained 1/2 car at launch (BFG Drag Radials and Hondata Launch Control) and we stayed that even until....well we went to stoopid speeds on a 35 mph road in Taylor Michigan.

100+ in a 35 and it was a dead heat, then we gained out senses and we never did that again.

M90 vs. a REAL blower from Tim's dad (Pop's) 67 Chevelle....

"Thats not a blower, THIS is a BLOWER!"

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Old 12-18-2018, 11:40 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Tim the Stick was his username....now a guest....

https://www.d-series.org/forums/tran...-friction.html
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Old 01-12-2019, 05:38 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Yay for superchargers! Way to do it guys, roots boost is best!
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Old 01-14-2019, 09:52 AM   #20 (permalink)
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I was poking through, and saw the post about breaking bolts when mounted in the AC position.


If someone were to remake the AC bracket to include the torque mount arm, this can prevent broken bolts.


The question would be, is the custom plate bracket worthwhile to produce?


You could have some triangulation with the power steering mounting holes, and use a bracket to "hang" the outer edge of the SC belly to reduce bolt stress, but you are then probably looking to drill out and tap the PS bracket holes for larger bolts, as many eat the threads after someone does a German Torque Spec on them.


I am curious overal, because I have a chippable OBD1 ecu in my hands for my 95 accord, an M62 would be a fun little match up, especially since I have a two piece intake manifold.....
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