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Old 11-03-2018, 11:14 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Help with Engine Management

Getting close to all turbo parts installed now I would love anyones input on the cheapest way to get a moderatley reliable engine mngmt / tune.

My goals are very small 200 or even less 180 would be fine with me ....Ok so heres what ive got its d15b vtec (came off an automatic car) swapped into a 1996 cx hatch manual ive put 5000km on the swapped engine and its running great

Obviously the best solution for me is hondata and dyno tune ...but can anyone tell me if there is any cheaper way to get the car fairly reliable for small hp gains i cant afford like 1200 $ right now for hondata and a dyno tune ? And if so list prices ...
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Old 11-03-2018, 11:54 AM   #2 (permalink)
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What kind of ECU do you currently have? OBD1 or OBD2, USDM rectangular type or JDM square type?
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Old 11-03-2018, 04:37 PM   #3 (permalink)
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This is the ecu ... i think its a jdm ecu ? Its obd1 with a jumper harness for the obd2 car and pretty sure its from an auto trans car
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Old 11-04-2018, 02:22 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Hmm from the sticker on outside of ecu Im seeing that my ecu is a p28 c01 ...canadian obd1 mt which is good cause if I do get hondata and my engine blows i didnt wanna be stuck with having no option but getting another jdm engine... I just assumed a jdm ecu would only work in a jdm engine and the guy who did my swap is mia..... this sound right?
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Old 11-04-2018, 10:44 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Nope, a USDM version will work with a JDM engine as long as the engine mechanical/electrical are similar in architecture.

The ECU you have is perfect (USDM P28 OBD1 VTEC capable ECU) for what you need to do. To avoid buying Hondata/Neptune, you will need to socket/chip that ECU to support removable EEPROM installations. Chipping/socketting kits can be purchased on various websites for between $25 and $50 dollars.

The only concern I have is what type of D15B VTEC system you have, do you have 2 (some call it 3) stage VTEC? Or is it single stage? The D15B came in both flavors. If it's single stage (one head mounted solenoid), you are good. If it's dual stage (2 head mounted solenoids), you need to have the ECU that came with that engine in order to have the hardware needed to drive both VTEC solenoids. I'm not sure how running a different set of software might affect 2/3 stage VTEC exactly, if it may only command one of the drivers or not, or even if the USDM boards can be modified to support 2/3 stage VTEC.

To identify 2/3 Stage VTEC, look at the VTEC solenoid on the head and see if it looks like this:






If it does look like this, I'm honestly not sure how you should proceed with the required ECU modifications. Just a heads up, if you do have 2/3 stage VTEC and are only running that engine on the USDM P28 ECU, you are losing out on a lot of the performance/efficiency potential of that engine. When the engine is low RPM, the engine effectively runs as a 12 valve engine. At mid RPMs, it turns into a 16 valve engine. At high RPMs, it keeps 16 valve mode and switches to the VTEC high lift/duration cam profile. Without the ECU to switch between 12 valve and 16 valve mode during the low RPM to mid RPM crossover, you are losing mid engine power and torque.

If it is 2/3 stage VTEC and you are running the USDM ECU, it should be going from 12 valve mode directly to 16 valve VTEC cam profile unless the person who did the swap knew what they were doing and either mechanically disabled 12 valve mode OR wired the VTEC-E solenoid to power continuously. That VTEC crossover must be nuts if 12 valve isn't disabled lmao, because running 12 valve to 4200RPM then switching to 16 valve high lift VTEC and beyond is like automatically installing then removing an intake air restrictor plate haha! Sorry, I'm just visualizing. Let me know what you have, and we can talk about what needs to happen if you have 2/3 stage VTEC.


If it is only a single VTEC solenoid, you can continue reading for the proper advice.

After the ECU hardware modifications are complete (installing the chip kit), you can purchase basemap chips from the various websites out there. They burn stock maps to good quality SST chips, and you can plug it into the ZIF socket on the modded ECU and it will run the engine in stock form.

Having an ECU that is socketted will allow you to take it to a tuner who will remove your chip and insert an emulator device in it's place. They will be able to run the ECU off of the emulator, and the car will follow the instructions the tuner is directing the emulator to run. Once a tune on the emulator device is complete and the tuner is satisfied with the work, he will erase your old basemap and burn the new tune to the EEPROM chip that was installed previously.

Once the chip is plugged back into the ECU, the engine will run the tune that the tuner created on the dyno.


This is the way to do it without throwing cash down for Hondata/Neptune. Hopefully you don't have 2/3 stage VTEC, as I don't know exactly how you should proceed because there are multiple things to consider!

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Old 11-08-2018, 03:19 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Well thats bizarre wonder where the heck my ecu came from guess my mech must hv had it... Great info by the way thanks! Oh and its 1 ..vtec solenoid that Ive got. I was pretty pumped when i read the suggestion about eprom and all that but then I remembered that I still have yet to find any tuner in a huge surrounding area that will work with anything but Hondata. Although I will be still looking for shops in neighboring cities (Edmonton and Calgary) who will tune with chrome or the other cheaper programs. There just are not very many shops around here for that.
This week two possibilities have came about in my price range via used listings. One is a hondata s300v1 in a p28 ecu out of a 99 civic si that had the b16a2 in it he says the ecu is obd1 pinned for obd2 whatever that means my ecu is obd1 but i just have a ob2 jumper harnes from it cause my cars a 96....he wants 400 but i wouldnt pay that might offer him sonething less than that...
The other is a hondata s200 not installed in a ecu looks like everything is there all the cables ect.. guy wants 60 bucks...
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Old 11-08-2018, 09:44 PM   #7 (permalink)
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S300 any version is better than the S200 in almost every way EXCEPT the fact that version 1 S300's have a volatile memory backup battery that is encased within epoxy resin inside the large "HONDATA" plastic chip mounted on the board. If the battery is dead, the unit is useless and you can't buy those pieces anymore.

The S200 blue box is actually not the entire piece you would need to fully tune the car yourself, unless you plan on using a tuner that has an EEPROM burner. The S200 box is external to the ECU, but is more or less just a datalogging device (plus launch control and full-throttle shift features that use jumper cables from the blue box to inside the ECU). To be able to actually modify your EEPROM, you need a rom burner like Moates Burn2 or pocket programmer coupled with appropriate software, or better yet an Ostrich 2.0 emulator device coupled with the Burn2 and appropriate software.

By the time you piece together everything you would need to tune the car yourself, you might as well buy an S300 V2 or newer, or a Demon 2 and Neptune software.

Sorry to burst any bubble you may have had! Just trying to have you avoid spending money on stuff you can't/won't be able to use! There is a reason Hondata/SManager and Neptune/Demon are packaged together the way they are. It takes all the guess work out of it, and you know you will be able to use it and it's entire feature set when it is installed (plus the factory tech support that stems from purchasing a new unit is always a bonus).

It's paying for convenience and trouble-free operation, to me these devices are definitely worth the extra hundred or so dollars for the package vs piecemealing everything together individually through other means.
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Old 11-09-2018, 04:57 AM   #8 (permalink)
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There is no such thing as dual stage vtec, it is either vtec -e, vtec or 3 stage.

Please don't try to make up your own terms.
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Old 11-18-2018, 11:23 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Ya ur right those used hondatas I mentioned were hurtin. Well now I know that v1s300 should be avoided . Ya for all the hassle better off just getting a new v3..
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