D16Z6 surging idle TDC Sensor Code 8 - D-series.org

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Old 09-16-2017, 12:27 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default D16Z6 surging idle TDC Sensor Code 8

So all this time I thought my shit idle was due to my basemap and bad air/fuel mixture. Negative Doesn't look like I'm gonna make it to the tuners this month.

So here's my issue. After 5-10 min of running, the car's idle goes to absolute crap and the CEL code 8 finally kicks on for TDC sensor.

So I was hoping it was a wiring issue since I have an obd1 engine in my obd2 car with a jumper harness and had to solder an obd1 dizzy connector into my car.

Here's the checks I did. I tested pins 3 and 7 for TDC sensor on the dizzy and received 390 ohms. So that seems to be good and in the correct range.

I did a continuity test from pins 3 and 7 on my connector back to the conversion harness thinking possibly I'm losing signal or didn't wire it correctly. Both check out fine. I'm receiving signal right at the connector that goes into my ecu.

So 2 questions.
#1. Is it possible for the TDC sensor to be bad even though it's reading in the correct range for ohms? I will admit it's an oem dizzy which I got used when I originally bought the d16z6 engine. So I've never seen it work correctly. I replaced the cap and rotor on it before I put it on the engine.

#2. Are there other issues that could throw a TDC CEL and cause surging idle?

The engine is newly rebuilt with performance parts from a reputable engine rebuilders in my area. I'm hoping they didn't foul something up either.
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Old 09-16-2017, 02:36 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Update:

I saw on Hondatec that a dirty IACV/IAT/FITV can possibly throw a TDC sensor code and cause really bad idle.

I just took off my TB and ripped apart my FITV and it was completely gummed up with black crap and actually had tiny sand like particles in it. Not good.

Going to clean all 3 thoroughly including the throttle body and report back.
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Old 09-17-2017, 03:13 PM   #3 (permalink)
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So I cleaned everything thoroughly but my TDC Sensor CEL is still on .

Since I have continuity from the TDC sensor line back to my computer, the only thing I can do is shell out some dough for a new dizzy and see if that works.

Question, my car seems to idle fine when it first starts up. After 5 minutes of warming up is when everything goes down hill and the TDC sensor CEL comes on. I read that the bearing inside the dizzy failing causes excess heat and can affect the TDC sensor which would make sense since the TDC CEL doesn't come on until everything is warmed up.

So would you guys recommend a new dizzy?

Cause that's about where I'm at. Other than that it could be an ECU issue which makes me cringe after getting a hondata S300 installed into it.
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Old 09-18-2017, 05:40 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Did you do a motor swap or anything?
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Old 09-18-2017, 08:57 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Shep View Post
So I cleaned everything thoroughly but my TDC Sensor CEL is still on .

Since I have continuity from the TDC sensor line back to my computer, the only thing I can do is shell out some dough for a new dizzy and see if that works.

Question, my car seems to idle fine when it first starts up. After 5 minutes of warming up is when everything goes down hill and the TDC sensor CEL comes on. I read that the bearing inside the dizzy failing causes excess heat and can affect the TDC sensor which would make sense since the TDC CEL doesn't come on until everything is warmed up.

So would you guys recommend a new dizzy?

Cause that's about where I'm at. Other than that it could be an ECU issue which makes me cringe after getting a hondata S300 installed into it.
you can check the gap between the rotor and the sensor and adjust it closer or farther away and see if that helps. ive had a couple of distributors that were very touchy about where they wanted the hall effect sensors to be.
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Old 09-18-2017, 10:53 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Hey guys thanks for the responses!

This is a newly built D16z6 into an obd2 98 civic. I have the conversion harness and everything wired.
Update:
I purchased a new distributor at my local autoparts store. Ran the car for 20 minutes and it did not stall out and the TDC sensor code is gone. Inspected my old dizzy (which is honestly what I should have done originally and I would have seen the issue) with it off the car and it was incredibly obvious the bearing was completely toast. Tons of play in the shaft. No good at all.

But I'm still getting bouncy idle and very low idle when warmed up. It seems to idle okay at startup and once the car hits over 170 degrees, the idle goes very very low and bouncy. When I rev it to 2500 rpm, it still fluctuates like crazy.

Things I've done so far:
Cleaned the FITV which was filthy thoroughly
Cleaned the TB which was also very very filthy
CLeaned the IACV which was kinda dirty. (I also put a screw driver up to the unit and heard a really fast tapping, i assume this means its working?)
Ran the car with the rad cap off to ensure the coolant system is bled.

Now with consideration that the TB is an oem with oem TPS sensor. Is it possible since the TB was so dirty, that this is a bad TPS sensor? I am not throwing a code for the TPS sensor but can they be bad without throwing a code?


My symptoms seem to align pretty closely with a TPS sensor issue too.

Thanks guys!
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Old 09-18-2017, 12:27 PM   #7 (permalink)
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TPS could just need to be adjusted. Check open and closed voltage against FSM.

MAP and TPS plugs switched?
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Old 09-18-2017, 01:18 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I'm going to check the voltage on the TPS tonight doing the paperclip method and look for .5 volts at closed and close to 5 at open.

No they aren't switched cuz I had to fix a wire on my map sensor last month that a previous owner of the car buggered up. So i have a heat shrinked wire to tell them apart. However. I did mess up my IAT and IACV once. Won't ever make that mistake again since it cost me 25 bucks for a new IAT Sensor lol

Here's a stupid question. Is idle surge normal on a car that has 1000cc injectors and just a basemap hondata? Maybe I'm beating myself up when that's just the way it is until i get to my tuners. I guess I had in my head that once I fixed the TDC sensor CEL that my idle was going to magically be perfect. But I'm also thinking like a person with a stock car lol.

You guys are probably going to laugh at me now :P lol
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Old 09-18-2017, 01:55 PM   #9 (permalink)
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I'm gonna check the TPS voltage and if it checks out fine, it's going to the tuners. I can't obsess anymore over it being "ready" for the tuners. I'll drive myself insane. Problem is he's 4 hours away and I gotta trailer it to him so I dont' wanna waste my money on the haul and find out he can't tune it cause of some wonky part. lol

I plugged the holes on my IACV and FITV after I cleaned em both out in my TB and they both seemed to act fine.
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Old 09-18-2017, 11:08 PM   #10 (permalink)
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I'm going to check the voltage on the TPS tonight doing the paperclip method and look for .5 volts at closed and close to 5 at open.

No they aren't switched cuz I had to fix a wire on my map sensor last month that a previous owner of the car buggered up. So i have a heat shrinked wire to tell them apart. However. I did mess up my IAT and IACV once. Won't ever make that mistake again since it cost me 25 bucks for a new IAT Sensor lol

Here's a stupid question. Is idle surge normal on a car that has 1000cc injectors and just a basemap hondata? Maybe I'm beating myself up when that's just the way it is until i get to my tuners. I guess I had in my head that once I fixed the TDC sensor CEL that my idle was going to magically be perfect. But I'm also thinking like a person with a stock car lol.

You guys are probably going to laugh at me now :P lol
swapping those two is known to blow ecu boards, ive done it myself. i would seriously look at the ecu at this point after hearing that.

and yes, its very normal to have idle issues with such large injectors as the pulse width at idle with that large of an injector is tiny, 10ms longer or shorter is a huge amount of fuel difference with those injectors.

In fact on my turbo 4.8 ls i was having an incredibly hard time dialing in the idle with my 80lb deka injectors because the pulse width required to idle at a somewhat stoich afr was extremely low. so low in fact that the injectors literally could not operate fast enough to allow the engine to idle above 13 afr and would swing tremendously from barely operating correctly (on the edge of the usable pulsewidth boundry) to pig rich within a couple of ms even to the point of stalling. this was remedied with some bosch 80lb/hr injectors which had much better pulse width response time and now i have no more idle issues.
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Last edited by cervan; 09-18-2017 at 11:15 PM.
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Old 09-19-2017, 01:04 PM   #11 (permalink)
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swapping those two is known to blow ecu boards, ive done it myself. i would seriously look at the ecu at this point after hearing that.

and yes, its very normal to have idle issues with such large injectors as the pulse width at idle with that large of an injector is tiny, 10ms longer or shorter is a huge amount of fuel difference with those injectors.

In fact on my turbo 4.8 ls i was having an incredibly hard time dialing in the idle with my 80lb deka injectors because the pulse width required to idle at a somewhat stoich afr was extremely low. so low in fact that the injectors literally could not operate fast enough to allow the engine to idle above 13 afr and would swing tremendously from barely operating correctly (on the edge of the usable pulsewidth boundry) to pig rich within a couple of ms even to the point of stalling. this was remedied with some bosch 80lb/hr injectors which had much better pulse width response time and now i have no more idle issues.
I checked for voltage on the connector coming from the ecu for my IAT and it seemed to check out ok. Is there anything else I can look for to make sure the ecu is ok?

Thanks

I think I'm just going to take it to my tuners and be done with it. Let him tell me if the surging is tune related or mechanical. At this point I've done everything I can think of mechanical wise (Cleaned FITV/IACV,Throttle body etc)

What you said makes a lot of sense and sounds like my car is doing exact same thing as yours.

Thanks man

Oh btw, TPS checked out great. Smooth transition of voltage when I move it and it's at around .47 closed. It was at .54 but my throttle cable was a lil tight. Readjusted it and it's now perfect. So I'm leaving the TPS alone lol
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